Page 3 | Pretty shocked....what comes next? Interim care order...

SplashparkSummer · 2022-08-31T17:00:28+00:00

I have posted about this before. I change a few details as a very sensitive issue. My toddler great nephew has been taken into care today on an interim care order. It has all been pretty upsetting. I was shocked that up until this morning it was understood he would stay with the foster carer that he lives with now as part of a mum and baby placement. This has turned out not to be the case and SS have been scrambling to find a placement for him and have only found one for 1 week. Everyone (except SS) including the judge wanted the case to be adjourned for a week to allow a longer term placement to be found and introductions to be done slowly but the current mum and baby foster carer initially would allow it only if mum could stay too but then changed her mind to not allow it with or without mum there. How upsetting for him to be removed from his mum and his home on the same day and then have another move in a week. Just needed to get that all out. What happens next? There is over a year until the final hearing and my nephew wants his DS to come and live with him. Any advice much appreciated.

Original poster

SplashparkSummer · 31/08/2022 19:37

Cakeandcardio · 31/08/2022 19:27

I don't know what happens next but it seems like a sad state of affairs all round, especially for the little boy. I'm saddened to read this post and wish you well. It's a lot to come to terms with.

Thank you, that's very kind. I just keep telling myself the foster carers will be lovely and care well for him if only for 1 week.

OP posts:

PainsandAches · 31/08/2022 19:39

@SplashparkSummer

If that was the case he'd have his child with him

He is a domestic abuser

Verbally abusive to his sons mother

And failed a parenting assessment

You can think he will end up in a father and baby placement all you want, it's not going to happen - as many on your original thread pointed out

Franklyfrost · 31/08/2022 19:46

You are hugely underestimating what it takes to fail a parenting assessment. I’m sorry.

Original poster

SplashparkSummer · 31/08/2022 19:50

CheapBeersFilledwithCrocodileTears · 31/08/2022 19:28

OP…

I’m sorry you’ve had an upsetting day with this news. But this:

“He failed the parenting assessment. It was felt he wasn't emotionally stable enough. There was also concern around arguments with the mum in front of the DC.”

So he fails his parenting assessment partially because he’s fighting with the baby’s mum. They looked at these fights and STILL determined the mum was the safer parent. Ok. And now she’s been determined unfit to keep the baby either. That baby loses mum and placement on the same day. Just out of curiosity, you didn’t give your nephew money for this solicitor, did you? This solicitor who thinks he can challenge the parenting assessment?

Because it’s sad, and it’s upsetting for you, but if you care about this baby, not what your nephew wants, not just keeping the baby in the family, but what’s really best for giving your grand nephew the best possible life… then two people, one who failed his parenting assessment and the other who got her baby taken off her and kicked out of a mum and baby placement, aren’t maybe the best start in life for him. Maybe let him go. Mum and baby placements are like gold dust. The mum had her chance and sadly, it’s gone. Your nephew had his chance and sadly, it’s gone too - and there’s always some excuse for him (the DV was when he was young, the bad mental health was because of his mum, I don’t know what excuse there is for his fights with the baby’s mum but I’m sure there’s something, according to him).

Just… my best advice is, in case you are or you have, do NOT give your money to your nephew for this magic solicitor to try to pay for his mistakes, and buy back his child. He has less than a snowball’s chance in hell and that’s IF he’s turned his entire life around, living it perfectly, found and hired this solicitor himself, fighting this fight on his own volition, supporting any previous children he has, etc. Without all that, he has no chance.

Unfortunately, the little boy's DM's mental health has been declining. This has led to an increase in arguments over the phone. This was a concern for both of them. They both failed the parenting assessment. It was felt mum could not care properly for her DS currently and the best option was an interim care order while they look at a parent and child placement for DN. So currently DN is seen as better able to look after him. No, I didn't give him money.

Mum has not been given the support she needs with her mental health, I believe if she gets that she can be a good mum as she was doing well before. She has tried to get help and is currently waiting assessment. But as we know it is very slow. chance has not gone as they are looking for a child and parent placement.

Look, I have said many times there was no excuse for DV. But actually I wonder if I might have made a mistake as a teenager in care when my mum has committed suicide. There are no 'fights' with the mum. There has been arguments over the phone.

[Post edited by MNHQ to remove identifying information]

OP posts:

BabyDreamers · 31/08/2022 19:52

I gave birth at 17 and have never had any SS involvement I do wonder what awful things people must have done to be kept away from their own children. As I know it's not simply that they are young. Can only think it is for the best OP.

Original poster

SplashparkSummer · 31/08/2022 19:53

CheapBeersFilledwithCrocodileTears · 31/08/2022 19:28

OP…

I’m sorry you’ve had an upsetting day with this news. But this:

“He failed the parenting assessment. It was felt he wasn't emotionally stable enough. There was also concern around arguments with the mum in front of the DC.”

So he fails his parenting assessment partially because he’s fighting with the baby’s mum. They looked at these fights and STILL determined the mum was the safer parent. Ok. And now she’s been determined unfit to keep the baby either. That baby loses mum and placement on the same day. Just out of curiosity, you didn’t give your nephew money for this solicitor, did you? This solicitor who thinks he can challenge the parenting assessment?

Because it’s sad, and it’s upsetting for you, but if you care about this baby, not what your nephew wants, not just keeping the baby in the family, but what’s really best for giving your grand nephew the best possible life… then two people, one who failed his parenting assessment and the other who got her baby taken off her and kicked out of a mum and baby placement, aren’t maybe the best start in life for him. Maybe let him go. Mum and baby placements are like gold dust. The mum had her chance and sadly, it’s gone. Your nephew had his chance and sadly, it’s gone too - and there’s always some excuse for him (the DV was when he was young, the bad mental health was because of his mum, I don’t know what excuse there is for his fights with the baby’s mum but I’m sure there’s something, according to him).

Just… my best advice is, in case you are or you have, do NOT give your money to your nephew for this magic solicitor to try to pay for his mistakes, and buy back his child. He has less than a snowball’s chance in hell and that’s IF he’s turned his entire life around, living it perfectly, found and hired this solicitor himself, fighting this fight on his own volition, supporting any previous children he has, etc. Without all that, he has no chance.

And yes he hired the solicitor, is fighting on his own volition, asked for my support himself. He has no other DC.

OP posts:

Whowhatwherewhenwhynow · 31/08/2022 19:54

Sorry to hear this Op.
I hope they find a suitable long term placement for your great nephew. I agree it’s sad he couldn’t stay with the current foster carer rather than be placed with temporary ones for only a week.

most others have added information about the LAC process so I won’t repeat. A year for a final date does sound like a long time frame.
Are social care doing concurrent planning and talking about adoption at all? If GN is young and there are no potential family carers I would be expecting this

bellac11 · 31/08/2022 19:54

SplashparkSummer · 31/08/2022 19:34

The solicitor said the positive contact notes were part of the case for requesting another parenting assessment. And actually she was all about doing what is right for the DC. He's not had any psychological tests.

You misunderstand me. The parents have been seperated for almost the whole of the DC's life. SS are well aware they are not together. But they would have arguments on the phone. DN doesn't speak to her on the phone now.

Show quote history

Yes as I said, solicitors will say 'we 're challenging this, theres clear evidence of excellent care here'

They are solicitors/barristers, its their job! They would be a pretty poor advocate if they didnt put their clients position forward. Parents solicitors will always phrase things in respect of the child's interests but they dont meant that Im afraid. Ive seen some shocking suggestions put forward for parents where its clear the child is just thought of as an object or belonging.

They always find some reason, some technicality to ask for another parenting assessment. Sometimes they are successful and thats another reason for huge drift and delay in proceedings getting completed

What I read into your last paragraph Im afraid is that both of them hassle and pester each other within a toxic relationship. They should have blocked each others numbers if they werent involved at some level, not spend time arguing with each other. He sounds emotionally immature and this may well be part of the difficulties he has.

Original poster

SplashparkSummer · 31/08/2022 19:57

bellac11 · 31/08/2022 19:29

You said he was with his mother while in a parent and child placement?

So the mum was in care and in a placement for her?

Or her child was in care and in a placement for the baby but with his mother parenting him? (this would be 'in care')

The language around P+C can be confusing it can refer to a placement where the child is in care but the placement is one where the child is looked after by its mother. That could be under s20 or ICO. You could have a child subject to ISO if they were s20

Or it could be a P+C which is just a placement for a mum who is a child in care where she can also have her baby with her, but the baby is not in care. This child could be subject to an ISO or SO

The LA clearly consider that they need to share PR with the parents. Or that a parent has withdrawn their S20 consent.

Unless you know the full complexities its impossible to say, its very complicated

Show quote history

What I know was it was a supervision order (I think ISO) not a ICO. The toddler was not in care in his own right.

OP posts:

Original poster

SplashparkSummer · 31/08/2022 19:58

Wife2b · 31/08/2022 19:37

Having read your update regarding unstable emotionally. I would expect he has had medical records shared with social worker and a Psychologist assessment that will have fed into the Parenting Assessment. Social workers can’t just make claims without evidence to support.

Thanks for the information.

OP posts:

Allybob88 · 31/08/2022 19:59

Firstly, you could get into alot of trouble posting this. Family law proceedings are private and you have posted alot of identifying information.

Secondly, stop believing everything these parents are telling you. Your great nephew would not be in going into foster care if your nephew was in a position/safe to care for him. Simple.

Thirdly, either put yourself forward to be assessed or leave the professionals to it and stop posting personally information on the internet.

bellac11 · 31/08/2022 20:00

Just to add, if a P+C is still being searched for, it may or may not be the plan. We still have to search for these placements even if the plan and assessment tells us that the child should be separated from parent/s.

The courts expect that P+Cs are searched for so that the court has all the options in front of them when they make decisions. There will need to be proof of what searches have taken place and what the decline reasons were from the placements who wouldnt take him.

With a negative parenting assessment it is highlly unlikely that its the chosen plan for the child to be with his father, but the Local Authority might be forced to continue to search for these placements and place father and child due to the courts view or the Guardian in particular, they are usually quite misguided about what is right for a child Im afraid

Also parents get legal aid, they dont have to fund their own counsel for these issues.

PainsandAches · 31/08/2022 20:00

Franklyfrost · 31/08/2022 19:46

You are hugely underestimating what it takes to fail a parenting assessment. I’m sorry.

OP will never get it unfortunately

She was the same on the other thread

Head in sand

BalloonsAndBlueSkies · 31/08/2022 20:00

SplashparkSummer · 31/08/2022 19:50

Unfortunately, the little boy's DM's mental health has been declining. This has led to an increase in arguments over the phone. This was a concern for both of them. They both failed the parenting assessment. It was felt mum could not care properly for her DS currently and the best option was an interim care order while they look at a parent and child placement for DN. So currently DN is seen as better able to look after him. No, I didn't give him money.

Mum has not been given the support she needs with her mental health, I believe if she gets that she can be a good mum as she was doing well before. She has tried to get help and is currently waiting assessment. But as we know it is very slow. chance has not gone as they are looking for a child and parent placement.

Look, I have said many times there was no excuse for DV. But actually I wonder if I might have made a mistake as a teenager in care when my mum has committed suicide. There are no 'fights' with the mum. There has been arguments over the phone.

[Post edited by MNHQ to remove identifying information]

Show quote history

You may want to ask MumsnetHQ to edit your post OP as you've included your nephew's name in this one.

AlternativelyWired · 31/08/2022 20:00

Poor child, I hope social services and the court do what is best for him. Ime they don't always but it sounds in this case that neither parent is suitable. I can't remember all the details from your other thread but does your nephew work? How is mum's mental health affecting her ability to parent? Did you say your nephews mental health is bad too? It's very sad that they are both care leavers. Being a parent is bloody tough and at their young ages with care backgrounds and possible lack of support it will be hard for them both.

bellac11 · 31/08/2022 20:03

Allybob88 · 31/08/2022 19:59

Firstly, you could get into alot of trouble posting this. Family law proceedings are private and you have posted alot of identifying information.

Secondly, stop believing everything these parents are telling you. Your great nephew would not be in going into foster care if your nephew was in a position/safe to care for him. Simple.

Thirdly, either put yourself forward to be assessed or leave the professionals to it and stop posting personally information on the internet.

I think OP is hugely ill informed and misguided but she wont be 'in trouble'

She hasnt posted identifying information at all.

Where does this child live, who are his parents, what LA is it, how old is the child, how old are the parents?

None of this is known.

And sadly this is a scenario playing out in every area of the country right now, I can tell you that.

Original poster

SplashparkSummer · 31/08/2022 20:04

PainsandAches · 31/08/2022 19:39

@SplashparkSummer

If that was the case he'd have his child with him

He is a domestic abuser

Verbally abusive to his sons mother

And failed a parenting assessment

You can think he will end up in a father and baby placement all you want, it's not going to happen - as many on your original thread pointed out

Why are SS looking for one then??Seems a waste of time if that is the case. If they think a placement is needed why would they just place his DS with him at home now? And as many pointed out on that thread so many people posted their opinion rather than correct information. I don't even know when I'll see my little DGN again so really not in the mood to argue with someone who uses a real life difficult situation for their own entertainment. I'll not engage with you again.

OP posts:

newbiename · 31/08/2022 20:05

Hotandbothereds · 31/08/2022 18:10

SS will look at the suitability of other family members, where’s his dad, is he around and why hasn’t your nephew been placed with him?

Are other family members in a position to put themselves forwards?

The baby is her great nephew , it's her nephew who is the Dad. Has supervised contact - reasons unknown.

Hopeandlove · 31/08/2022 20:05

SplashparkSummer · 31/08/2022 19:14

This was the view of the solicitor - would you have seen the reports from the contact centre?

In terms of the parenting assessment the solicitor is challenging it as it only involved one session with DN's DS and one without. Therefore I don't necessarily think their evaluation of DN's mental health was accurate. At the time of the parenting assessment (which was quite a while ago) DN was still in contact with his DS's mum and there would be arguments. He made the decision about 6 weeks ago to not have any contact with her himself and therefore he has now dealt with this issue. A parent and child placement is still on the cards. Thank you for the information about contact.

Show quote history

6 weeks ago is not ‘dealing with the issue’

he has mental health issues
he has issues with committing dv on his partner then ex partner and this is clear child abuse if it happened in from of the child

6 weeks is nothing

I find it highly suspicious that he is saying the foster carer would not do one more week

he had an assessment he failed - you can’t take that back

PainsandAches · 31/08/2022 20:05

@bellac11

She has included her nephews name in posts!

Of course it's identifying

watcherintherye · 31/08/2022 20:06

BalloonsAndBlueSkies · 31/08/2022 20:00

You may want to ask MumsnetHQ to edit your post OP as you've included your nephew's name in this one.

Show quote history

I thought that, then wondered if It may be an autocorrect for DN?

Allybob88 · 31/08/2022 20:07

I know that very well thankyou, it's my job.

If the foster carer is a Mumsnet user do you think she wouldn't recognise this case....?

That's all it takes.

Original poster

SplashparkSummer · 31/08/2022 20:07

Franklyfrost · 31/08/2022 19:46

You are hugely underestimating what it takes to fail a parenting assessment. I’m sorry.

I am only working on the information given. But I honestly don't feel one assessment at DN's home and one at contact is enough to make this decision and his solicitor agrees. SS are also still looking for a parent and child placement.

OP posts:

bellac11 · 31/08/2022 20:07

SplashparkSummer · 31/08/2022 20:04

Why are SS looking for one then??Seems a waste of time if that is the case. If they think a placement is needed why would they just place his DS with him at home now? And as many pointed out on that thread so many people posted their opinion rather than correct information. I don't even know when I'll see my little DGN again so really not in the mood to argue with someone who uses a real life difficult situation for their own entertainment. I'll not engage with you again.

Show quote history

Just to repeat my other post, we often have to search for them even if the LA plan is not P+C, and yes it is a huge waste of time and resources. Its quite outrageous actually and in my view cruel of parents advocates to get their clients hopes up and present this as a possibility when its never going to happen.

As someone said above they should be multi planning, first option should be mum, then dad, then any viable family members and finally if none of those are an option then adoption must be explored. But this all should be happening at the same time to avoid delay

bellac11 · 31/08/2022 20:08

PainsandAches · 31/08/2022 20:05

@bellac11

She has included her nephews name in posts!

Of course it's identifying

I didnt see that sorry