Pretty shocked....what comes next? Interim care order...

[SplashparkSummer]

I have posted about this before. I change a few details as a very sensitive issue.

My toddler great nephew has been taken into care today on an interim care order. It has all been pretty upsetting. I was shocked that up until this morning it was understood he would stay with the foster carer that he lives with now as part of a mum and baby placement. This has turned out not to be the case and SS have been scrambling to find a placement for him and have only found one for 1 week. Everyone (except SS) including the judge wanted the case to be adjourned for a week to allow a longer term placement to be found and introductions to be done slowly but the current mum and baby foster carer initially would allow it only if mum could stay too but then changed her mind to not allow it with or without mum there. How upsetting for him to be removed from his mum and his home on the same day and then have another move in a week. Just needed to get that all out.

What happens next? There is over a year until the final hearing and my nephew wants his DS to come and live with him. Any advice much appreciated.

You're right it is complex. I've not seen any reference to the DV in the past, it appears to be more to do with mental health and arguments with mum. His contact has been going really well and he has addressed both the issues.

Yes they will attend, they will be invited whether they attend is up to them.

If the parents for any reason cant be together in the same meeting it can be held in 2 parts.

Some parents dont attend and say they werent invited, we get that a lot.

And as an aside in comment to another poster above, there is no reason someone with a history of DV cant go in a parent and child placement unless

• they are still seen as violent and so would be placement staff/foster carers at risk
• their care of the child is so poor that a placement with their child would be detrimental to the child

The law assumes, and works to the premise that a child will not be separated from its parent. Care planning is often changed due to the courts not agreeing separation so often parents will be placed with their parents or children remain at home with them despite social services concerns and despite the application for separation.

However there are so many different factors involved in any case.

If his contact was going well then they would/should have moved to unsupervised contact by now

If his issues are now addressed then a parenting assessment would be positive and he would have been placed in a parent and child placement (if there were any, thats the other issue that there just arent any available)

If baby is in a baby only placement only by virtue that there are no P+Cs available then his contact would be increased to try to replicate the sort of care he would be carrying out if he was in a P+C (ie caring for child full time)

The initial lac review will take place within 28 days, but it won't determine your great nephew's next steps. The purpose is to review his existing care plan which is now within the court arena. Recommendations will be made about day to day issues.

The court will have set a timetable, so your nephew knows what is happening next. You could ask him? He and the mum may be having further parenting assessments, or hair strand tests, psychological assessments, cognitive assessments etc. Information from the police, medical records etc will be filed. All family members who wish to be assessed will have the opportunity to be assessed - you have already said that you don't wish to care for your great nephew though.

No, that's still the plan.

Thanks so much for the information.

Sounds like the child was already in care though, so its not an initial review

Im guessng they are already fairly long into the proceedings if a parenting assessment is completed and dads counsel are challenging it

Over a year until final hearing doesn’t sound right…it’s usually 26 weeks roughly.

This was the view of the solicitor - would you have seen the reports from the contact centre?

In terms of the parenting assessment the solicitor is challenging it as it only involved one session with DN's DS and one without. Therefore I don't necessarily think their evaluation of DN's mental health was accurate. At the time of the parenting assessment (which was quite a while ago) DN was still in contact with his DS's mum and there would be arguments. He made the decision about 6 weeks ago to not have any contact with her himself and therefore he has now dealt with this issue. A parent and child placement is still on the cards. Thank you for the information about contact.

The courts are clogged and backed up like never before. Its possible, it depends what the issues are, when the assessments are scheduled to come in, whether there are any expert witness reports needed and their timetables, court availability.

We have some proceedings running for a couple of years in a number of cases and still not finished. Quite often its courts extending more and more time for more and more assessments for parents, even when its never going to result in a different out come, all the time the child waiting for a final outcome. And then because the court availability is so limited the next hearing is months and months away

This was the view of the solicitor - would you have seen the reports from the contact centre?

In terms of the parenting assessment the solicitor is challenging it as it only involved one session with DN's DS and one without. Therefore I don't necessarily think their evaluation of DN's mental health was accurate. At the time of the parenting assessment (which was quite a while ago) DN was still in contact with his DS's mum and there would be arguments. He made the decision about 6 weeks ago to not have any contact with her himself and therefore he has now dealt with this issue. A parent and child placement is still on the cards. Thank you for the information about contact.

Many people have made it clear you are wrong. An incidence of DV as a teenager does not mean he can't be a good dad now. Stop embarrassing yourself.

Over a year until final hearing doesn’t sound right…it’s usually 26 weeks roughly. Also, in the kindest way, I’d stay uninvolved unless you’re putting yourself forward to be assessed. There will be a good reason why the child is not already with his father.

What was the view of his solicitor? Solicitors dont complete social work or expert assessments, they advocate for their client and they will propose what is right for their client, not necessarily right for the child

In care proceedings the contact notes are filed, they are part of the bundle, so everyone sees them, the parents, the Guardian, the judge.

An assessment of mental health is made by cognitive/psychological/psychiatric assessments or a combination of them depending on the circumstances. The recommendations in those are then incorporated into the parenting assessment

To be separated from someone for 6 weeks is nothing and is not seen as significant. Therefore, with respect, its not accurate to say he has 'dealt with' the issue. Parents will often miraculously announced they have split with their partner and are out of a toxic relationship at very convenient times, such as right before a hearing or right before an assessment starts.

A parent and child placement may be the plan of the father, it doesnt necessarily mean its on the cards.

Yes, he told me about the final hearing date. Nothing was said about any assessments, just that there they were looking at DN going into a child and parent home. Unfortunately, I can't have him as I don't have the space. I assume he would need his own room?

He was under a supervision order prior to the ICO. I'm not sure that counts as being in care? Would they need an ICO if he was already in care?

Oh, really? That was what I understood from his solicitor but I'll check, thanks.

I don't know what happens next but it seems like a sad state of affairs all round, especially for the little boy. I'm saddened to read this post and wish you well. It's a lot to come to terms with.

OP…

I’m sorry you’ve had an upsetting day with this news. But this:

“He failed the parenting assessment. It was felt he wasn't emotionally stable enough. There was also concern around arguments with the mum in front of the DC.”

So he fails his parenting assessment partially because he’s fighting with the baby’s mum. They looked at these fights and STILL determined the mum was the safer parent. Ok. And now she’s been determined unfit to keep the baby either. That baby loses mum and placement on the same day. Just out of curiosity, you didn’t give your nephew money for this solicitor, did you? This solicitor who thinks he can challenge the parenting assessment?

Because it’s sad, and it’s upsetting for you, but if you care about this baby, not what your nephew wants, not just keeping the baby in the family, but what’s really best for giving your grand nephew the best possible life… then two people, one who failed his parenting assessment and the other who got her baby taken off her and kicked out of a mum and baby placement, aren’t maybe the best start in life for him. Maybe let him go. Mum and baby placements are like gold dust. The mum had her chance and sadly, it’s gone. Your nephew had his chance and sadly, it’s gone too - and there’s always some excuse for him (the DV was when he was young, the bad mental health was because of his mum, I don’t know what excuse there is for his fights with the baby’s mum but I’m sure there’s something, according to him).

Just… my best advice is, in case you are or you have, do NOT give your money to your nephew for this magic solicitor to try to pay for his mistakes, and buy back his child. He has less than a snowball’s chance in hell and that’s IF he’s turned his entire life around, living it perfectly, found and hired this solicitor himself, fighting this fight on his own volition, supporting any previous children he has, etc. Without all that, he has no chance.

I know, but there must also be a good reason why they are suggesting a parent and child placement. He's a care leaver himself and has no parents or siblings. So yeah, I will give him support.

You said he was with his mother while in a parent and child placement?

So the mum was in care and in a placement for her?

Or her child was in care and in a placement for the baby but with his mother parenting him? (this would be 'in care')

The language around P+C can be confusing it can refer to a placement where the child is in care but the placement is one where the child is looked after by its mother. That could be under s20 or ICO. You could have a child subject to ISO if they were s20

Or it could be a P+C which is just a placement for a mum who is a child in care where she can also have her baby with her, but the baby is not in care. This child could be subject to an ISO or SO

The LA clearly consider that they need to share PR with the parents. Or that a parent has withdrawn their S20 consent.

Unless you know the full complexities its impossible to say, its very complicated

The solicitor said the positive contact notes were part of the case for requesting another parenting assessment. And actually she was all about doing what is right for the DC. He's not had any psychological tests.

You misunderstand me. The parents have been seperated for almost the whole of the DC's life. SS are well aware they are not together. But they would have arguments on the phone. DN doesn't speak to her on the phone now.

Social services have said about the placement. I believe they are looking for one.

Having read your update regarding unstable emotionally. I would expect he has had medical records shared with social worker and a Psychologist assessment that will have fed into the Parenting Assessment. Social workers can’t just make claims without evidence to support.