to be cross with childminders being overprotective when my boy is infectious?!

[MaeBee]

my ds has mild conjunctivitis. i checked the advice on the NHS website before taking him to a toddler group, and it said continue going to playgroups and schools. so i did. and i warned every parent coming in, cos my toddler is a big fan of little babies in particular and likes to kiss them, so i thought if i warned them then they could stop him rubbing his face on their babies if i hadn't got there first!
well, without exception all the parents were fine about it. but the childminders were all a bit arsey. they all tend to sit in one corner together and every time my ds went over there they just picked him up and put him away, not even letting him in that corner where some of the toys are.
in the end i left early, because he was feeling unwell and because i wasn't sure what to do. but now im feeling i should have been more confrontational. the other thing is, its a SureStart group,its free, set up in deprived areas to help parents. i don't have a problem at all with the childminders also using it, but i do if they start hogging an area and being mean to my kid.
am i being unreasonable?

Do you know its conjunctivitis?

My Ds has had what I thought was conjunctivitis a couple of times-the doctor said both times that, normally, weeping eyes are from a viral infection which has led to blocked eye ducts-it is not bacterial, and just has to clear up. If it is in only one eye, its more likely to be bacterial, both eyes, viral.

OP-maybe you should ask your Dr to take a swab so you know what you are dealing with?

I agree that some of the responses on the site have been over the top-as a new parent its easy to get confused about what is serious and what is not especially if you know you are a worrier. It seems reasonable to me to follow NHS advice. Its impossible to totally protect children from infections, a lot are spread in the period before symptoms become apparent anyway.

Also, please remeber, that whoever wrote the nhs website probably didnt take into account how many peoples lives this infection interferes with. They are only telling you that the infection is not serious, not that it wont stop people losing jobs or money!

Um - can't believe how bitchy that all got - from what I can see Maebee was asking for your opinions - which you gave, but did it have to be quite so nasty?

She was only going on what health professionals had told her, so wasn't at fault and can't be blamed.......our nursery didn't ask children to go home with conjunctivitis when mine were small so it's more understandable for a newish Mum to think that's par for the course surely.....

Sorry if I was one of those that upset you Mae, it wasn't my intention. When there's a topic on here that is close to my heart I get arsey! (childminder? arsey? Surely not! )

I think it has been done now and the OP has been answered and let that be an end to it. Just a shame you started it on a full moon, you know the rules! You fool!

I look forward to cheerful banter with you elsewhere on the boards and I hope your DS is better soon.

I think YANBU to take him to the play group but with your attitude towards the CMS and their mindees YABU. DD has been sent home from nursery many times with "conjunctivitis" that I have felt was not conjunctivitis, just watery eyes accompanying a cold. But she is not allowed back in until she is being treated. So I have to take the day off work and make an unnecessary doctor's appt just so she can go back to nursery, which I am still paying for in the meantime. Same with DS when he had suspected hand, foot and mouth despite my knowing the blister on his hand resulted from him trapping it in the washing machine door.

Our tots group has mainly got childminders, (one cm runs it) but we do our best to include everyone, it just happens that we end up sitting together but we try to mix as much as possible which is good.

We provide activities open to everyone such as healthy eating , puppet shows which teach the children about things like sharing and road safety and parties at Christmas and Summer. We follow festivals ( ie: Chinese New Year, Divali) and Saints' days to enourage the children whatever age to get involved with help from the parents.

I've had a number of parents asking me advice on things and am only too happy to try or advise them to go to their GP/HV if its medical.We are only human beings doing a job which is slowly becoming controlled by OFSTED and this over-protective Government. I don't think I've heard any cm being arsey apart from one and she has stopped coming having moved to another area.

I have to say I kind of side with Mae although I can see the POV of everyone else as well.

I personally would not take my child to playgroup with cj BUT I also wouldn't bother if someone else did. Mine have had cj before and yes they have been more poorly with a cold which most people agree that with a runny nose etc there is no need to exclude from playgroup etc.

The only reason I wouldn't take mine is because I am such a soft touch and would feel bad if a littly caught it from mine.

Another reason is shown on this thread. The huge number of people who seem to be up in arms over it. In a few years time when the up to date evidence is a bit more widely known this thread will be entirely different.

well i put on my coat made from puppy skin and forced my dying child into his buggy despite his wishes, and popped into the pharmacist on the way to ask the toddler group if we could come in. thought a 3rd medical opinion wouldn't go amiss. he was aghast and said it was a bacterial infection and i had to go to the dr's to get antibiotic drops and definately NOT go to toddler groups.
so i went to the doctors and he said: its basically a cold in the eyes, and people get freaked out because it looks nasty, but that doesn't mean its bacterial. it will clear up on its own. i can prescribe you antibiotic drops if you want though. i told him the different views of the pharmacist and NHS direct, and asked him about going to toddler groups. he said a lot of groups might disallow cj infections anyway. but that, in his personal opinion, he thought kids with mild infections shouldn't be kept at home.
so, in conclusion, i think there is a lot of misinformation about conjunctivitis and its obviously quite common for it to be treated as very serious. but that more recently it has been seen as minor. so maybe people who were first parents a few years ago have different knowledge to those of us who are newer. and opinion is obviously divided in the medical profession too. the dr's i go to is really progressive, but the chemist (im guessing!) seems much more of a traditional bunch.
so there we go. opinion divided.
btw: last time ds had cj he was 2 mths and nobody batted an eyelid. someone suggested i use breastmilk and it cleared up in 24hrs. i took him to baby groups then, and had no idea anyone would think it was serious. none of the health visitors acted as if i should worry, or even suggested i went to the drs or kept him home. again, its quite a progressive baby group so maybe thats why?
my friend over the road has just delivered me a few drops of expressed breastmilk as i requested.thought i might as well try it! will let you know outcome if you are interested...

MaeBee - let me know what happens with the breastmilk - I was going to try it with ds but then his cj cleared up on its own. He's bound to get it again, it does seem to be one of those childhood things that are a part of winter, so tips for future infections are appreciated!

I don't know about the progressive/traditional thing. People will always have different and emotive responses to childhood illnesses and transmission.

I guess I am pretty laid back about it. I use public transport with ds, and am used to us both being coughed and sneezed over, and used to other babies reaching out to say hello to ds. I imagine he gets as many bugs from there, and from children who are carrying stuff but asymptomatic, as at playgroups. And I'm not about to stop using the bus.

Good luck with your little one.

you are spot on with your post maebee.
sorry if you've been made to feel bullied. i suppose thats the problem with mumsnet - things can come across more harshly when written down rather than spoken.
breastmilk can help - because of the antibodies. mum's often look at me as if i am bonkers when i suggest squirting in their dc's eye- its quite funny.
i really don't think YABU if you are following govt guidelines/medical advice/and have asked your playgroup/other mums in the group. also if your playgroup doesn't exclude for cj then no-one else will have to ake a day off if their child does get it. as said before though most children carry these bugs (bacteria and viruses) in their upper respiratory tract anyway without it causing an infection so they have prob all got the bug anyway! will try and find some links on that to explain why its not as contagious as everyone thinks.
to be fair i don't think the medical communtiy is divided. there have been lots of papers in high profile journals (BMJ/lancet) but maybe some docs don't keep up to date (which is very difficult to do as there is always so much new info on everything! - why medicine is such an exciting job) pharmacists are wonderful people with huge amounts of knowledge about drugs.interactions/side effects but not necessarily the best in this situation.

crace - once the rash shows up on slapped cheek it is no longer contagious. the only pregnant women who would be at risk would be ones who you came into contact with before you even realised you had slapped cheek which you can't really help.

I think that people (read- childcare settings) completely over react to conjunctivitis, personally. As I understand it, it is caused by a bacterium that most of us carry around anyway. So why they hysteria?

Haven't read the whole thread, no time. BUT dh works with a chap, whose wife is a GP. Their son (5) has conjunctivitis, and school tried to tell her to take him home.

But as a GP she catagorically told them that he can be at school. It really isn't hugely that infectious, I suspect people get a bit overconcerned because it looks so horrid.

But I think you'de have to scoop the mucus straight from one child eye to another to get it caught.

Sorry, yes nappyaddict you are right

i still think YABU, whatever the argument is around whether it's that infectious/harmful or not. my DS's nursery won't take kids with conjunctivitis, simple as that. i don't have the time or the means to argue my case and insist they take him because it's not harmful or that infectious, the rules are the rules and i have to take several days off work to look after him. that is the argument that i think you are missing.

My DS got conjunctivitis once at nursery from a child who's parents knowingly sent them into nursery with it, just giving their DC the drops in the morning. for that parent's selfishness (they would have known the rules, you are given them when you sign up) i had to take several days off work.

I found conjunctivitis bloody uncomfortable.

Presumably that's what my grizzly and frustrated children were telling me too.

I would hate to have recurrent bouts from being constantly exposed.

I am therefore glad that los' nursery send them home in an attempt to curtail an outbreak & I accept I have to have time off work to look after my children.

to add support to Maebee/ luvaduck et al: my dd woke up a couple of weeks ago with a horrible red swollen eye, that she couldn't open. I persuaded my reluctant husband to take the day off work, and book her an emergency appointment with the GP. The appointment was at 10.30, and by the time she got there, the swelling was practically gone. Gp laughed when my dh told her I'd insisted that dd should stay off school, and rush to get some antibiotic drops. She told dh that they don't routinely prescribe antibiotics these days, and that she should go back to school the next day.

Maebee and lovaduck You still both seem to be missing the point.

1. Nobody is suggesting that AB's be used to treat it and this has not been disputed, they are not necessary in 99% of cases.
2. However, the fact that it affects the eyes makes it much more inconvenient than a cold, no matter how mild the conjunctivitis is.
3. Much of the research outlines the need for good personal hygiene to limit the spread. This is practically impossible with toddlers due to them rarely being still, touching everything etc.
4. CM have a responsibility by OFSTED guidelines to prevent the spread of infection among mindees.
5. You are also missing some social conscience in this. For the sake of 2hrs of pleasure for you and ds you will happily knowingly cause numerous other children and adults lots of discomfort.

I despair at your selfish attitude.
FWIW the guidelines for looking after a child with a cold in my home are that if they are unable to participate in activities we normally do, they have to stay home. This is because otherwise the child may be tired and sleepy if they felt unwell, so all other mindees would have to stay in the house so that poorly mindee could go to bed.
Also, most toddlers who are unwell need lots of TLC and one to one attention when unwell. Again this is just not possible in a childcare setting and is unfair to the child.
Also, FWIW, just before xmas my mindee was sent to me with a 'cold' for 2 days without it being mentioned to me that she had been up for several nights in a row coughing. I caught the 'cold' and the week after developed pneumonia/ very severe chest infection at 29wks pg- not pleasant. I also lost 10 days pay as couldn't work. Mindees had to find alternative care. No care available so the parents ended up taking the second week off.

YOU ARE BEING SELFISH

....but hey, my mindee only had a cold. Mild infection......

i am not missing the point just to trying to share with you the raionale/evidence behind guidelines so you can make your own decisions. i am new to mumsnet and didn't realise it could get so nasty/personal. thought it was meant to be info/advice sharing forum.

I am inclined to agree with tortoiseSHELL that the OP has been treated pretty harshly here. She did indeed follow official advice from more than one authoritative source. Just because that happens to contradict the anecdotal knowledge of the motley crowd in this particular cul-de-sac of MN, doesn't mean she is being unreasonable, selfish or any of the other, frankly, rather hysterical epithets that have been aimed in her direction.

It follows that, as we mix with other people, we will be exposed to viruses and bacteria. Only within certain limits can one be expected to take responsibility for avoiding passing things on to others. I have understood the advice about conjunctivitis (among other things, including colds) to be based on the judgement that, for most people, the effects of the illness are relatively minor and it is not worth the disruption to normal life that "quarantine" would entail. Of course, not everyone is "most people" but the fact remains that each person's responsibility for other people's welfare is not unlimited.

Also, it is not mandatory for a poster posing an AIBU question to accept the "judgement" of the majority of responders. AIBU questions vary and many are posed by people who clearly have no doubt about their own reasonableness. The response they get, it seems to me, can have as much to do with the time of day and the nature of the first few posts as it has with anything else.

sorry about your experience tori agree must have been awful.
A cold is a self limiting viral infection. pneumonia is a bacterial infection. but i see you are a nurse so you should know that. so she didn't have a cold when she was sent to you but probably had a bacterial chest infection, so that is a different point entirely.

lovaduck my point there is that most lay people cannot tell the difference and therefore it is better to be safe than sorry about spreading infection.

I think most ppl understand and agree with the medical vp on conjunctivitis.

But MNers are also practical mums, there are other considerations wider than the medical rationale, concerning: spread and constant reinfection; the majority of childcare providers will send children home; practical considerations and very real financial implications of having to take time off work; and just your child getting ill (conjunctivitis can make them miserable - it does me!)

If this can be avoided by parent not knowingly exposing their infectious children, it makes a big difference to other parents' lives.

Surely, tori32, if a parent were to keep their child at home from nursery, CM, toddlers group or whatever every time he or she had what appeared to be a cold or might have an infectious illness that might, just might, have significant consequences for some other person, then no child would go anywhere for more than half of their childhood?

Wouldn't other parents end up losing just as many - perhaps more - days at work keeping their own possibly infectious children away from their peers that way?

It's not necessarily better to be safe than sorry. It is always better to be sensible than irrational.