to be cross with childminders being overprotective when my boy is infectious?!

[MaeBee]

my ds has mild conjunctivitis. i checked the advice on the NHS website before taking him to a toddler group, and it said continue going to playgroups and schools. so i did. and i warned every parent coming in, cos my toddler is a big fan of little babies in particular and likes to kiss them, so i thought if i warned them then they could stop him rubbing his face on their babies if i hadn't got there first!
well, without exception all the parents were fine about it. but the childminders were all a bit arsey. they all tend to sit in one corner together and every time my ds went over there they just picked him up and put him away, not even letting him in that corner where some of the toys are.
in the end i left early, because he was feeling unwell and because i wasn't sure what to do. but now im feeling i should have been more confrontational. the other thing is, its a SureStart group,its free, set up in deprived areas to help parents. i don't have a problem at all with the childminders also using it, but i do if they start hogging an area and being mean to my kid.
am i being unreasonable?

Its not cm snobbery.
I am a mum. I have to take time off work for conjunctivitis and so will any other working mums that your child infects.
If you bring your child to anywhere that he will mix with my children, KNOWING that yours has a contagious disease that me and dp might end up with as well (has happened a couple of times when my boys have had it) then I would keep my child and the toys he wants to play with well away from yours. If he has touched his eyes at all, then the infection will be on his clothes, any toy or chair etc that he has touched.
Hell no I'd just go home.

oh come on, nobody: working or not working: wants their child to get ill. but there has to be a level that you decide whether to exclude or not. and medical advice is, as i've researched at length now!, that, like a cold, its just one of those risks thats worth taking to carry on including children.
my ds's best friend has had a cold constantly since she was born. often with weeping eyes too, poor lass. and yes, her working mum has to sometimes take time off to look after her. thats good for me cos i get to see her at playgroups...

Sorry, besides all else..why do you think THEY should move YOUR child away so THEIR child doesnt get the infection?
Why cant YOU watch your child to make sure he doesnt rub his face all over them?

that was half jesting by the way. she is always under the weather, but her mum does keep her home when shes extremely bad.

yabu i would be very annoyed if my dd caught conjuctivitus because someone wouldn't miss an activity. maybe cm get more concerned because they are not the parent and would then have to explain why the child had been infected.

I'd still be annoyed with you for bringing a knowingly infectious child. That also applies for heavy colds.

I had conjunctivitis a few weeks ago - caught in this exact way. It's annoying me just thinking about it. For the sake of a child having an hour at playgroup I had a week of having to wear my glasses (I wear contacts), washing my hands thoroughly regularly to prevent me passing it to DH/DS, not cuddling close to DS, because as a mother I would not willingly want to pass it on to him. He also missed out on about 4 activities because I didn't want to knowingly risk infecting other children.

I'm sorry but Gp/NHS whatever advice I still think you are being selfish given it is so contagious and you know he has it. Sorry, just my opinion.

how ould you feel if you went to a group with your new born baby and a big toddler was running round with conjuctivitis look at it from other peoples point of view YABU. Why can' you stay in for a few days

ok you asked for more evidence:
(this is mostly for lennygrrl please feel free to skip and sorry its so long)

this is from the lancet
proquest.umi.com/pqdweb?index=6&did=864067001&SrchMode=1&sid=3&Fmt=4&VInst=PROD&VType=PQD&RQT=309&VN ame=PQD&TS=1201021411&clientId=65007

there are several more articles in BMJ and other well known medical journals if you want i can get them for you! basically the tide has turned and antibiotics are not needed in uncomplicated cases. it is now viewed as a minor self limiting infection like the common cold. some children might catch it BUT most of the children are carrying the bacteria in their upper respiratory tracts anyway, and will be exposed to it at some point, and may even be colonised (this means that you carry it on your skin but it doesn't cause an illness). Most species of the bacteria that cause conjunctivitis can be found in the respiratory secretions of almost all children, sick or well.

in fact widespread infection is not usually observed in a school/nursery after one child is infected. very occasionly a more virulent bug does cause an outbreak and this needs antibiotics (again though children not ILL as such just have sticky eyes).
this is interesting about why gps prescribe antibiotics when they are not needed
fampra.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/23/2/226

but this in the discussion is interesting:
"Lay beliefs about transmission and need for treatment and the exclusion policies operated by nurseries and schools, create a demand for treatment of acute infective conjunctivitis, despite its high spontaneous cure rate. This research suggests that GPs should acknowledge and explore these issues when consulting with a child with conjunctivitis. However, reduction of the pressure on GPs to prescribe will not only require GP education but also education of the public and schools to implement current public health policy on exclusion"

prodigy - this gives advice after appraising papers:
www.cks.library.nhs.uk/conjunctivitis_infective/in_summary/scenario_acute_infective_conjunctivitis

www.admin.ox.ac.uk/po/news/2004-05/jun/22.shtml

from BMJ:
Antibiotics for upper respiratory tract infections and conjunctivitis in primary care
Remco P Rietveld, Patrick J E Bindels, Gerben ter Riet. British Medical Journal. (International edition). London: Aug 12, 2006. Vol. 333, Iss. 7563; pg. 311

Abstract (Summary)
Although upper respiratory tract infections and acute infective conjunctivitis are minor illnesses that are usually self limiting, the use of antibiotics in these disorders is high. Randomised controlled trials and meta-analyses of such trials have shown that antibiotics provided mainly short term benefit and the reduction in symptoms was too limited to justify the use of antibiotics for these minor disorders.

right have said enough on this topic now. sorry if being annoying.

"of the toys are.
in the end i left early, because he was feeling unwell and because i wasn't sure what to do. but now im feeling i should have been more confrontational. the other thing is, its a SureStart group,its free, set up in deprived areas to help parents. i don't have a problem at all with the childminders also using it, but i do if they start hogging an area and being mean to my kid.
am i being unreasonable? "

Well you said yourself your little boy was unwell. Your child should not have been there.

I agree that the childminders should not hog the toys, its up to whoever runs the group to sort out arguements between the carers. If your child is being bullied then you need to tell the group leader that you are unhappy.

The childminders maybe should have asked the organisers to make you leave if they thought your child was infectious. It is wrong to bully a toddler.

Mae, you can pretty much guarantee that you are getting a more honest answer on here than you were from the people you 'warned' at the playgroup - they are face to face with you and there is more social need for politeness than on a chat room! They also have their kids with them who look forward to coming and are not really able to turn round and hot foot it out.

Regardless of this latest medical advice that it's 'mild' (usually) it is still on a human level, REALLY selfish to take a child along to that sort of group, knowingly. It's not fair to warn people and put the onus on them.

People will certainly view you as selfish. But of course they won't say that.

I'd just entertain your child at home for a short while.

in an area of high social deprivation, kids are much more likely to get minor ailments. excluding them from groups means excluding the very target group that Surestart wants to reach.
im not keeping him home for a cold. i would indeed keep him home for a serious illness that could be damaging to babies, children or pregnant women.
sensible enough?

i don't think anybody thinks you should keep him home for amild cold but you said he had conjuctivitis

I guess that at the end of the day, you have to make your own decision, Mae.

After reading the latest medical advice, I can see your point. However, just stop and think for a moment.

Even if it is, as current evidence suggests, a mild, common infliction there remains that problem with nurseries and childminders. Most nurseries do not allow children with conjunctivitus to attend. Comparing conjuntivitus with a common cold is at the moment not really much use, a nursery will not send a child with a cold home.

Any child that your child infects, even if it is a "mild" disease will be sent home, this means the parent has to take time off work. Just so that a SAHM can get out of the house and meet with friends at a playgroup.

Up to you Mae all I am saying is what people will make of your actions.

what does he gain from going to a group when i your words he was feeling unwell

I do find this attitude shocking TBH. What is so hard about a bit of consideration for others, and staying in for a very, very short period of time? Blimey.

i agree perhaps the OP won't be so happy when her whole family end up with norovirus because somebody else was lets face it thoughtless and selfish

So you are going to knowingly risk infecting other children and their parents with an albeit mild, but uncomfortable and irritating, illness just so that you can get him out for an hour, when he's not even probably feeling 100% anyway? And you can't see how that could be construed as being selfish. Let alone the poor parents who might have childcare issues on their hands should their child get it? Why do you NEED to go to this group tomorrow - show me how your need to go is greater than other children's need to be conjunctivitis free? It might be mild like a cold, doesn't mean it isn't unpleasant.

Ok, let's talk about the econaomics of the Surestart target group, shall we?

The group that are most likely to be in low paid, low skilled, easily filled jobs where there is no sick pay, no contract, and no job security.

Where just one too many days off with a child that a childminder or nursery refuse to take could,

• best scenario, lose the mother a day's pay that she was seriously relying on

• worst scenario, child has just got over chicken pox, the mum's boss has had enough of this unreliable mother who never puts her job first and sacks her.

Yes children do catch infectious diseases, frequently and it's usually nobody's fault ... but if someone loses their job because of a completely uneccesary exposure to conjunctivitus, well that's just not fair.

The group you go to needs some consideration, not just for their health, but for their financial circumstances.

Mae, I will repeat what I said in an earlier post about childminders. We have a duty to our mindees and parents to protect the children from illness, however mild. The sheer fact that these children are with minders means their parents have to work. If their child is then infected by another with an infectious disease, the parents will not be able to take their children to their minders and therefore have to make other arrangements, no doubt causing many problems, which ultimately is not their fault.

Whatever the new guidelines are, I will not accept a child with conjunctivitis. Childminders are already working in a minefield with policies and paper work, brought about by Ofsted rules. The last thing we need is to be put in a situation like this.

The childminders at this group were protecting their charges and themselves. If you go again tomorrow, they will do the same thing again.

hear hear colditz

Message withdrawn

Sod the government guidelines, YABVU and SELFISH too by putting other babies and children at risk of infectious diseases just because you want your DS to play. Why not keep him home tomorrow?

FFS where is your compassion? Colditz's post says it all really.