to be cross with childminders being overprotective when my boy is infectious?!

[MaeBee]

my ds has mild conjunctivitis. i checked the advice on the NHS website before taking him to a toddler group, and it said continue going to playgroups and schools. so i did. and i warned every parent coming in, cos my toddler is a big fan of little babies in particular and likes to kiss them, so i thought if i warned them then they could stop him rubbing his face on their babies if i hadn't got there first!
well, without exception all the parents were fine about it. but the childminders were all a bit arsey. they all tend to sit in one corner together and every time my ds went over there they just picked him up and put him away, not even letting him in that corner where some of the toys are.
in the end i left early, because he was feeling unwell and because i wasn't sure what to do. but now im feeling i should have been more confrontational. the other thing is, its a SureStart group,its free, set up in deprived areas to help parents. i don't have a problem at all with the childminders also using it, but i do if they start hogging an area and being mean to my kid.
am i being unreasonable?

lovemygirls

i think you found the info about conjunctivitis leading to meningitis etc on the nhs direct website. if you look a little closer it under the subheading neonatal conjunctivitis which is an entirely different condition and is serious. this isn't explained very well on the site. well it isn't explained at all.

conjunctivitis under 28 days old needs to be investigated as it can be passed to the baby from the mothers vaginal tract and can be caused by gonorrhoea/chlymydia and a few other bacteria. this is serious and can lead to those complications. it is not passed from toddler to baby as suggested- it is a different condition to common garden conjunctivitis a mild self limiting infection.

not sure if i have made that clear re reading that post. the complications described in the nhs site are under neonatal conjunctivitis which is passed from mother's vaginal tract to baby's eye. this is different to the conjunctivitis we have been discussing on this thread.
hmm hope thats better

so what if the nhs site says it's ok? It also says how potentially dangerous it can be. and it also says how infectious it is.

This is just another 'I know my rights and f**k everybody else' case imo.

It's putting your own desires above the needs of many many people. It's just totally unnecessary, selfish and ignorant. Who knows how many people you could infect/cause great inconvenience/financial loss etc etc to just for the sake of a change of scene and a natter and a cup of tea with a biscuit. fgs, go for a walk in the park or something. A bit of fresh air would do you more good anyway. (not op in particular. would do one more good).

of course, playgroups can be fun and useful, but missing an odd one for the greater good is surely no great sacrifice?

But then you know all this but still seem determined to go despite so many people (and health professionals advising to the contrary). sigh. glad you know your rights. Good for you.

i have used mumsnet for a long time to check my own thoughts and instincts, most often getting help and support in bringing up my kid. i make many mistakes. mumsnet is a brilliant resource, and i thank it and the people on it for the help.
however, much of this thread has felt like bullying and left me angry and upset rather than guided.
im still confused and unsure. i dont believe an internet forum is more honest than face to face communication. and i agree with some of the last posts that the majority are not always right. but i would hate any of the other parents in my group to feel like the people on this forum, since fury and venom, even though i think they are wrong.
i think i need a break.

but you came here asking if we thought you were right or wrong! The VAST majority of people think you're wrong, and have given very valid reasons why.

It's not a Q of bullying. It's sheer frustration that 1 person refuses to see the situation from the other side, even tho that was the original Q!!!!

I genuinely don't understand why you ask in the 1st place and then steadfastly refuse to alter your stance, when there are 180 posts on this thread now, and all but a tiny fraction are saying don't do it.

Is there really some desperate reason why you MUST take a poorly child to a playgroup, when you end up having to leave early anyway ... because he's too poorly? Why why why not just let the kid rest at home, or play in the garden / park with him?

agree with ernest

there is a huge difference between 100 disagreeing with you strongly, and bullying

no-one is attacking you

perhaps it would be more gracious to agree to disagree rather than accusing the people disagreeing of bullying

*100 posters

For what its worth the health protection guidance states that children with conjunctivitis do not have to be excluded, however good practice guidance says you should (advice from NDNA), HPA advises exclusion for an outbreak, well one child pretty much will start an outbreak in a nursery environment so why let it get that bad.

Regardless what this apparent new guidelines are, I still think it is common courtesy to keep your child away until clearer up when dealing with contagious illness such as conjunctivitus. Other people should be able to go out to a playgroup without worrying about exposure to this.

How do you know the other people don't have something coming up where catching somthing like this would be highly inconvenient - holiday, work meeting so can't afford time off work, new baby due, etc.

i HAVE changed my mind. in that, many posters said i was unreasonable to be angry at the cms in that group. i agree, i relent.
i took action cos of so much outrage: i sought a second medical opinion. which i got, and which wasn't the same opinion as many of the posters here.so i swung back to thinking it was ok to take my kid to playgroup.
i really want to thank luvaduck for her help too.
taking a week of toddler groups IS a big deal for me and my little one. so i do only want to do it if necessary. after his nap yesterday he seemed in good spirits and he does today too, although his eyes were gunky this morning poor boy. im inclined to overworry and i don't want to visit the doctor unnecessarily though.
i have had two doctors and NHS DIRECT and my friends telling me one thing, and some people on an internet that i don't actually know telling me another. i am influenced by your advice and suggestions,but i don't want to be unfairly pressured into the wrong thing.
and whilst some of this is well phrased, and careful, some of it has been pretty nasty. which isn't persuasive.

Sorry but just another point nappyaddict, things like slapped cheek have implications for pregnant woman and can cause birth defects and miscarriage so I would hope that sensible people would keep their children away.

my ex chidminder was a pain in that. my dd could never attend for every mild thing, like conjuntivities, and they did not even want to have her when gp and doctor told them it wasn't impetigo. however once they hidy their boy downstairs when he had an infectious illness as they did not want to lose the paid day. so yes some childminders can be arsey and know-it-all, also the thing they own playgroups because they go there all the time.

also they think they own

also they think they own

I am very, very stuck if I get conjunctivitis.

I wear contact lenses that alter my sight as I sleep so I don't need to wear them during the day.

However, with an eye infection, I have to stop wearing the lenses till it's cleared up.

I have glasses that work once my eyesight has gone back to its "normal" level, but nothing for the in-between day - so I can't see well enough to drive, or go to work, or get DS1 to school, etc, etc.

I hope your DS is OK. But "mild" and "conjunctivitis" aren't two words that go in the same sentence for me.

mymanor you are right. when I had contact lenses I experienced conjuntivities and it's dreadful.
most times it is convenient to diagnose itchy and sore eyes as conj when really it's not. that is the problem.

MaeBee - can you ask some of your friends again directly if they are being onest in their opinions or just trying to protect your feelings? You'll need to assure them you won't take their honesty personally.

Because I know for a fact that all bar one of my toddler friends think it is wrong to bring a child with conjunctivitis to a confined area with other toddlers and babies - I know this because at the end of last year I had a toddler party and the one friend who thought it was ok brought her toddler with conjunctivitis - every single one of my friends commented negatively about this woman. None of them said anything to her face. And for what it's worth, that's where I caught the blimmin thing from which meant that over xmas whilst I was debilitated on crutches (due to something else) I was also uncomfortable with my eyes, having to make frequent painful trips to wash my hands and not able to have close contact with my son. My policy worked - no one else caught it from me. Really, do you think people will be as honest to your face as they are when they can "hide" behind an internet forum?

Pippi, please understand that childminders have to protect the children that they mind. If their mindees are subjected to an infectious disease, it could possibly spread through all of the family members if those children and could cause umpteen inconveniences. We're not being difficult, and its not just about money either. We have strict guidelines to adhere to and if, god forbid, one of these diseases turned really nasty, it would be our head on the line. I do think your CM was being out of order though, hiding her ds. That's really wrong.

I judge every childs ailment on a day to day basis. If I feel that I cannot look after them, for the good of their health and that of my other mindees, then so be it. I will always do my best to be of service to my parents, because they are paying me to do so.

Maebee
I am sorry that you feel bullied or pressured. It is truly not what we are trying to do. We are just (and I think I speak for most of the posters on this thread) a bit amazed that you are so resistant to advice.

Yes, you have had your advice, from doctors, friends and websites. And you are "officially" within your rights to go where you want with your DS.

As Ernset said though, it is just common courtesy to keep your DS away from other children when he has an infectious condition that, if the other children catch, will mean them having to stay off nursery.

Can you not understand the POV of the posters, working mums, who would have to do without pay for a couple of days if their DC got conjunctivitus? That is more annoying than your DC missing out on a few sessions at playgroup.

I caught a common cold from my SIL's DS when she brought him to visit us just a week before I was due with DS. I had a horrible cough through labour then ended up having an emergency CS. The cough got worse and I was terrified that I would burst my stitches (there was a woman in the next bed in agony after this happened ot her) I was so worried, that I stopped breastfeeding to that I could take cough mixture. I am still annoyed with my SIL for bringing her DS to see me when I was 38 weeks.

Maybee, I do not think you should have attended a toddler group with your son if he had conjunctivitis. If there is even a tiny chance one of my own children could/would infect another child with something I would keep them away. I understand these groups are a welcome break and you enjoy the company as does your son but the other children should have been considered in this too. You could have had a walk to the park or shops instead if you needed to get out if the house. ( we have all been there!) I really hope you will not be attending today and I hope your DS feels better soon.

Oh and by the way, I too am a childminder and as has already been said, it is our job to protect those in our care. It is what we are paid and trusted to do.

I've just read this whole thread - one or two thoughts.

I think the OP has had a very rough ride on this thread, given that she checked the NHS advice, and it SPECIFICALLY says children should not be excluded from playgroups. Whatever your personal feelings on conjunctivitis, this is professional advice, so I don't think it appropriate to berate the OP, even if you think the professional advice is wrong.

I also have experience of being excluded from nursery when dd had chickenpox (except she was beyond the infectious stage, but hadn't quite met the nursery criteria for being non-infectious - you are infectious for 5 days after the first spot, this was 10 days over, so way past the period, but they said 'all the spots had to have crusted over', which is the 'old' advice, now replaced by '5 days'.). This caused me to lose a day's pay, but I still had to pay the nursery. So it is important to use the most up to date advice.

Ds2 is 20 months, and for the first year of his life had almost continuous conjunctivitis - he has a condition where his tear ducts are blocked and don't drain properly, although it is almost resolved now, and he doesn't get infections anymore. Had I not been able to take him anywhere with conjunctivitis, then not only would I have had to stay in the house for a year, but dd would have missed out on all her activities (age 3-4). Even though with ds2, it was highly unlikely to transmit infection, as was down to a pre-existing condition.

And I do also understand the gripes about CMs. I used to go to a toddler group, but left because I couldn't bear it any longer! It was half mums, half childminders.

Before I offend any childminders, I'm not suggesting this is indicative of all childminders, simply the ones at this group!

The mums sat together, the CMs sat together. We tried to incldue the CMs, but they were there to chat with other CMs (fair enough). What really irked me was that the mums ended up playing with their mindees, because they were too busy talking. Now I KNOW that is probably not typical, but it was what happened at our group, and I left in the end, because it was much harder work for me, and less enjoyable for the kids, than staying at home!

I can assure you tortoiseSHELL that this is most definately NOT the case at my local toddler groups!

Quite a few of us are childminders but I am also a Mum as I take my 17 month along with me. It is my job to care for my children, both minded and my own. Yes, of course I have a netter with others whilst there but my main priority is obviously to ALL the children in my care.

There is no "them" and "us" at the group I go too, we are all there for the same reason, to allow the children to mix with each other and have fun whilst gaining an hours adult company for ourselves ( when the children allow it!)

That sounds ideal berkschick - as I said, it may be an isolated thing, but it was to the detriment of the group.

No there isn't a c/m parent divide at ours either. I got a lot of business in fact from my local toddler group in fact. I also go as a parent with my 2 year old, plus my minded children. And I am definitely treated and welcomed a such.

I find it strange that the c/m group would be like that - very odd indeed. They'd be better off starting their own group off away from toddler group.

At our group it's more the mums that ignore their own children!