to be cross with childminders being overprotective when my boy is infectious?!

[MaeBee]

my ds has mild conjunctivitis. i checked the advice on the NHS website before taking him to a toddler group, and it said continue going to playgroups and schools. so i did. and i warned every parent coming in, cos my toddler is a big fan of little babies in particular and likes to kiss them, so i thought if i warned them then they could stop him rubbing his face on their babies if i hadn't got there first!
well, without exception all the parents were fine about it. but the childminders were all a bit arsey. they all tend to sit in one corner together and every time my ds went over there they just picked him up and put him away, not even letting him in that corner where some of the toys are.
in the end i left early, because he was feeling unwell and because i wasn't sure what to do. but now im feeling i should have been more confrontational. the other thing is, its a SureStart group,its free, set up in deprived areas to help parents. i don't have a problem at all with the childminders also using it, but i do if they start hogging an area and being mean to my kid.
am i being unreasonable?

I don't care what GPs say, I would be gutted if DD gave her best friend conjuctivitis.

On a personal note I have just avoided meeting up with a friend because her DS had conjunctivitis and I didn't want DD getting it at the moment (we're moving next week!) but I did feel quite precious cancelling our arrangement.

However I was surprised to learn that said friend's DS had been in nursery all week with the conjunctivitis as nursery policy was that once they had the drops to treat the infection the child was allowed to attend!

DH is a GP and that's the advise that he gives too! Have been meaning to check with DD's nursery to see if that is their policy too.

Childminder issue aside for a moment.

NHS advises that it's OK to continue going to playgroups etc. Yet in the same link, it says the following:

"Spreading the infection

You are more likely to develop infective conjunctivitis if you have been in close contact with someone who is already infected. It is therefore very important that you make sure that you wash your hands thoroughly after coming into contact with someone who has the condition."

So ... NHS Direct reckon it's OK to continue going to playgroup ... but that everyone who touches your child should wash their hands thoroughly - presumably every time they touch them ... how totally ridiculous! very bad advice on the part of NHS Direct IMO.

TBH I think the only thing the OP is guilty of (in relation to the conjunctivitis issue) is taking at face value the advice of NHS Direct. Which is what it is there for. So although I think most people are horrified at her taking her son to playgroup, she did at least try to find out if it was OK first!

I used to have a mindee who's parent needed time out too. As long as I get paid for my services, I don't care what parents are doing whilst I'm minding. I agree, its not just affluent families who use cm's, I just got the feeling from the OP, that that was her impression and unless she comes back and puts any of us straight, we will never know what she meant.

OMG, not only are you being tottaly unreasonable you are also being thoughtless and selfish

who in their right mind, cm or not would want a child with conjunctivitis at a toddler group?

im a cm and would have done exactly what the other cms done and carried your child away.....conjunctivitis is highly infectous, why would i want to inconvience my mindees parents by putting their child at risk of infection resulting in them needing time off from work?

YABveryU!

my eyes are itchy now

My CM will not have my son when he has conjunctivitis. Quite right too. He has had it three times and each time it has been an absolute screaming nightmare for both of us, trying to put stinging drops in his eyes five times a day, him waking up at night with his eyes literally glued shut, having to spend half an hour in the morning trying to get the gunk off. It's bloody horrible and when he has it I don't let him leave the house cos I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Or their baby.

YABU. The childminders are probably more knowledgable about the very contagious nature of conjunctivitis. Toddlers tend to rub their eyes and then pick up toys, which later get played with by other children, who then touch their eyes and end up catching it. I am a CM and will not accept children with conjunctivitis unless they are being actively treated for it for that reason. If all the minded children caught it then it would inconvenience the parents through them having to have time off work. The parents were probably fine because if their child catches it then they are already at home and can look after them without any changes being made.
They were looking out for their children, I feel that you could think anyone would be happy about you bringing your child to group with conjunctivitis. I am also that you appear to be so ignorant about how easily it is spread, i.e. not just with direct contact, but through shared toys.

to go against the flow NO YANBU!

nhs direct is right. the health protection agency advises that exclusion from school/nursery is not necessary. [[http://www.hpa.org.uk/essex/factsheets/CJCtitis.pdf here] is a factsheet

just to deal with a few myths

it is a mild disease. a child feels much more unwell if they havea cold. yes it is infectious but as are colds, mild coughs etc and there is no need to exclude for all of these related conditions. most kids are not bothered by it. it is not usually painful, and if it is then it is not a simple conjunctivitis but keratoconjunctivitis which involves the cornea which will usually require antibiotic drops.

in fact there is now evidence that suggests it doesn't need treating with antibiotics, but GPs feel pressured into giving because of the hysteria created by nursery staff. sorry - its not thier fault - the HPA/goct need to spread the message better.

this is one of the papers about not needing to treat with antibiotics

know this is going to create some debate....

sorry haven't really worked out how to do links yet

here

having said all that i don't think nhs direct is always right - they often give some bizarre advice and the end result is usually - go to a+e or see your gp so a complete waste of time really but thats another story...

Lovaduck As a nurse as well as a CM I know that most conjunctivitis is actually viral and in toddlers usually stems from them having a cold and then rubbing their eyes, thus spreading the virus to their eyes. However, it is very infectious. I agree that children of school age should still be able to go as they do not spread it as quickly, wash hands if they have snot on them and usually after using the toilet. However, toddlers constantly touch snotty noses and then wipe eyes, suck thumbs, put fingers in their mouths etc and rarely do you see parents at toddler groups washing their hands. Also, older children do not handle toys with snot all over their hands as many toddlers do.
In a CM setting all toys would have to be disinfected to prevent spreading it to other mindees. The viral strain usually clears within 48 hours anyway, at which point they could return. However, if it then turns out to be bacterial and the child has attended childcare, it is too late to prevent spread and all the children will most likely develop it.

lovaduck also, FWIW I used to be a scrub nurse in theatres and was not allowed into the department with conjunctivitis, even though I washed my hands constantly all day long and before and after any patient contact. Does that not tell you anything?

FWIW, my DS had conj and I called the school to say wouldn't be in and they said he could attend.

Well, if the OP's child does have Fifth Disease/Slapped Cheek rather than a nasty cold with conjunctivitis, Fifth Disease is a potential risk to non-immune women less than 20 weeks pregnant

Having read the title again, and taking on board your comments Luvaduck, I think basically the CM's weren't delibarately being mean to the OP's ds, but like many other people working under Ofsted, they are constantly in fear of making a mistake and putting their neck on the line. I'm sure that what you say maybe true, that there's no need to be quite as hysterical about it, but cm's have to protect their mindees as well as their businesses.

So, whilst I think it was still a bit daft for the OP to go to a playgroup, she did do the right thing in checking first. The cm's were only doing what they have been taught to do - protect their mindees from what they have been told is an infectious disease.

I am a GP and this is based on research - i know its not very popular. i do tend to presribe antibiotics as can empathise with parents having childcare issues as most nurseries exclude despite current HPA guidlines. But antibiotics don't make any difference (less than half a day of illness less) so some Gps don't prescibe at all.

oh and sorry if i didn't make it clear. i didn't say its not infectious - just that its a mild illness(usually)

not intending to create a mutiny - just with regard to all the comments that the OP has created - she must be feeling rubbish - and she was following evidence based national advice so go easy thats all!

sorry crossed post MML - agree CM not intending to be mean.
and slapped cheek is a whole different ball game, yes dangerous to pregnant women and should def be excluded
but very different symptoms

www.gpnotebook.co.uk/simplepage.cfm?ID=141230080&linkID=97&cook=no

bloody hell! no, not run away, went to meet a friend for lunch actually, even though we both have colds...

really didn't realise it would be so contentious. or rather,not contentious, that i would be so damned! i did check NHS website for advice because i was concerned and undecided whether i should go. i checked with the worker there and she also said it was okay. and i warned everyone coming in because i wanted to make sure everyone was aware so they could be extra cautious. obviously you all feel very strongly that i shouldn't have gone. but all the other parents genuinely just laughed it off and seemed unbothered, even those with little babies, and no, im really sure it wasn't cos im 'one of them', but because they felt it was a minor thing that kids are always getting. i thought i was being a bit over the top telling people by the end of it. no, i never had it. everything i've read suggests its very uncomplicated and minor, about the equivilent of a cold (?!)
what pissed me off about the childminders attitude was that they, as a group, seemed antagonistic towards my son, and one of them said she didn't want it passed on because she was a childminder, and i guess it felt to me she was implying a status thing, as if childminders were more concerned with the health of their children. and i totally support anyone moving my child off theirs, i was stopping him touch other children too of course, it was moving him away from the whole corner that they as childminders sit in, even when he was just trying to get the toys. the kids themselves were all over the place!
no, i don't mind grandparents or childminders or even the aristocrats from the rich areas coming! however, funding for the free groups exists to support parents in the area. only so many people are allowed in the group, its now got too big, and people are sometimes turned away. so i guess i do think that priority should probably go to parents in the area, even though some of my favourite other parents travel from other areas.
after talking to the other parents: who really did have a different attitude to you lot: i was definate that i had done the right thing going and i should go to a group tomorrow. now im feeling confused and unsure. my friends and professional medical advice say one thing, but MNetters say another...and i don't want to piss anyone off OR infect other kids, but i don't want to stay at home for a week for such an insignificant thing.
but is it worse than a cold? he gets a cold every other week and i wouldn't keep him home for that. BTW: im 99.9% sure its not fifth disease, his cheek is responding to excema cream!
and surely going to playgroups there is just a risk of infectious diseases? kids have stuff all the time, having had scabies im dreading getting it again through a playgroup but i expect i will! and am expecting chickenpox and all that. many of these things don't have symptoms until your kid has infected everyone.
well, sorry to have upset you all so much. i'm still undecided about tomorrow because, as i said, im getting contradictary opinions. i might phone my GP and ask her.

well done
you sound very sensible. have sent you some links (seee below)so you can look at the research yourself.
it sounds like your playgroup knows and listens to the HPA (health protection agency) advice.
it is like a cold.

Can I link you to a thread I have just started about infectious diseases in childcare.

here

so when my ds gets sent home from nursery with conjunctivitis I should be arguing he stay?

yes but its the nursery that needs educating. so you might be fighting a losing battle. best to talk to your practice or PCT (primary care trust) to see if they can change the nursery policy.
in our area the local Gps have written to the nurseries with the evidence to back it up. but most are privaely run so they can do what they like! which is a real pain for mums who work - thye have to take the day off when really there is no need.

Message withdrawn

yep, accept criticisms about my cm comments. think i was feeling angry. and there IS a weird divide, the cm's hang out in a gang and don't really chat to the parents but maybe they feel the same about us?

As a childminder I would have done the same, including if the child was streaming eyes and nose and just had a cold. I feel responsible for the children I watch to not knowingly put them in situations where they will become unwell. It seems ridiculous to me that you would be offended by people not wanting your very ill very contagious child near them.

Perhaps you should have been proactive and removed your child before they had to remove them for you.