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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To say something about DN behavior?

196 replies

MatronicO6 · 31/08/2022 09:04

Have a nephew first grandchild in family so got a lot of attention for himself for a 4 years. He has always been energetic and lively but I am absolutely shocked by his behavior on recent holiday.

Things he has done:
In every restaurant runs around shouting, crawls under table, when finally sitting at table he loudly shouts inappropriate things (mummy farts, daddy has a willy) so whole restaurant can hear. We got some horrified looks from nearby tables whose meal was clearly interrupted

Would refuse to leave playgrounds. Had to go to every playground he saw and then refuse to leave. Basically affecting following plans/dinner reservations etc

New 3 month baby sibling he would demand to be with whatever parent had the baby. So baby would have to be put down. At one point when his mum was breastfeeding at a quiet cafe he banged and screamed at window to get her out.

Destroyed property of Airbnb. Threw games on ground and refused to pick up.

Ignored parents constantly. Every time they asked h to do something he would ignore, pretend he didn't hear or walk away

Despite ordering sausage or burger at every meal when offered at a bbq he suddenly didn't either and demanded mum go get him beans,which she had t drive to a British shop forin Middle of feeding other baby

On top of that found out when he goes to others houses who has a toy he likes he will refuse to leave until he is given said toy.

The whole holiday was a nightmare because of him, every day was just exhausting. And all his mum and dad do is gently tell him he shouldn't do that or this after about ten mins of him throwing stuff. I could go on and on but these are main takeaways from this holiday.

Feel like I need to say something to B and SIL but don't know if it's my place! Would you want to be told or let them get on with it?

OP posts:
LuftBalloons · 31/08/2022 16:33

You’re not being unreasonable - he sounds at the very bad end of 4 year old indulged Begay and it’s his parents’ inability to enforce boundaries which is the problem.

But you’ll get no thanks for saying anything.

It’s really sad - underneath all his terrible behaviour is probably a bewildered little boy who wonders why he’s no longer the centre of his parents’ attention. And his parents’ inability to set clear firm boundaries about his behaviour means no one wants to hang out with him, which I imagine might compound his naughtiness.

You could model firmer clearer behaviour to him and his parents but it’s hard to do this with other people’s children, even family.

Original poster
MatronicO6 · 31/08/2022 16:38

giveovernate · 31/08/2022 16:18

Actually 4 month old now. Her and other baby were good as gold

Which is nothing to do with your parenting! 🙄

I didn't at any point claim to be an amazing parent, feel like I have barely survived the last 4 months. Hence why I am asking other, what I assume is more experienced parents what they advise I do or not do.

OP posts:
Midpmcoffee · 31/08/2022 16:41

For the fourth time

WHAT IS YOUR RELATIONSHIP LIKE WITH YOUR BROTHER AND SIL ASIDE FROM ISSUE? 😂

I suspect your radio silence speaks volumes

phishy · 31/08/2022 16:42

shazzybazzy34 · 31/08/2022 12:41

Another person who could give a few tips, this time to the Op about how to be a cool auntie and earn the right to discipline.

Show quote history

OP literally has not one nice thing to say about her nephew yet you think she should be disciplining him and giving his parents advice?

What planet are you on? There is no trace of affection in OP's posts for her nephew.

greywinds · 31/08/2022 16:47

So you've not seen him for a while, two new babies have come into the picture, other people have already put their foot in it - exactly the time to back off and not double down trying to give parenting input.

I've lived away for ages (in other countries), and it's so much harder to maintain cordial relationships when you see each other for intensive periods, but rarely. You judge because the period is intense (holiday) so you feel you have a good sample of evidence but you forget that you don't have the same relationship as you are not there as much and that you've still effectively only seen him once recently.

Midpmcoffee · 31/08/2022 16:50

Ah finally responded!!

Midpmcoffee · 31/08/2022 16:52

You haven’t seen them in a year oP.

and then temporarily live together in very close quarters.

Added to which, you are now back in your own country? Unlikely to see them again for another year? So what would be the point?

giveovernate · 31/08/2022 16:54

I didn't at any point claim to be an amazing parent, feel like I have barely survived the last 4 months. Hence why I am asking other, what I assume is more experienced parents what they advise I do or not do.

@MatronicO6 , why have you rarely survived? Parenting is so easy? Are you not in a routine? If not, why not? Are you feeding on demand, you should stop that. Honestly, at four months old, you shouldn't feel like you're barely surviving. Are you back at work?

MzHz · 31/08/2022 17:09

giveovernate · 31/08/2022 16:54

I didn't at any point claim to be an amazing parent, feel like I have barely survived the last 4 months. Hence why I am asking other, what I assume is more experienced parents what they advise I do or not do.

@MatronicO6 , why have you rarely survived? Parenting is so easy? Are you not in a routine? If not, why not? Are you feeding on demand, you should stop that. Honestly, at four months old, you shouldn't feel like you're barely surviving. Are you back at work?

What a load of shite!

@MatronicO6 at 4 months I was only just remembering my own name! Got into a routine about this point and it was life changing

stop giving a fuck about the idiots on here Chipping at you, my own “D”Ns have been poorly parented and it annoys the shit out of me because their parent and I had the same upbringing. We were both taught how to behave

i suppose she thinks she’s cool mum. She’s not. Her kids are painful and I have fuck all to do with any of them.

giveovernate · 31/08/2022 17:16

@MzHz I was questioning OPs parenting skills, the same way she was asking about questioning other peoples.......

Agree it's totally ridiculous, children are all different.

Original poster
MatronicO6 · 31/08/2022 17:36

giveovernate · 31/08/2022 17:16

@MzHz I was questioning OPs parenting skills, the same way she was asking about questioning other peoples.......

Agree it's totally ridiculous, children are all different.

I don't know what kind of parent I am or will be, like I said, I'm still figuring it out and only now feel like I'm getting the hang of it.

But I am worried DN is going to find school and forming friendships very difficult. But going with the consensus on here and saying nothing.

OP posts:
Branleuse · 31/08/2022 17:45

No good will come of saying anything. What do you hope to achieve?
Theyll either feel ashamed, judged, misunderstood or annoyed or any combination of those.
Theres a strong chance they know hes hard work, but were maybe trying to keep everything calm and not escalate situations more than necessary.

Your best bet is to chalk it up to experience and not go on holiday with them again. Accept your nephew is far too lively for you to enjoy his company at this age. It does not have any bearing as to how he will be when older.
Plenty of kids are hyperactive and a pain in the arse at that age. Its not always about parenting techniques

saraclara · 31/08/2022 18:44

LividLaVidaLoca · 31/08/2022 13:20

My 2yo is capable of acting like this at least 20% of the time. The rest of the time he is a delight.

When he acts up in public or in front of family I am VERY aware of what he’s doing.

They know. Offer support. Take him for a walk. Find a toy to distract him. Why would you be a dick and “have a word” like they aren’t doing everything they can?

But they're not doing everything they can. They're not doing anything. If they were doing their best, few people would have a problem with them. In fact they'd empathise and feel for them. But it's clear from the restaurant story that they're being entirely ineffectual..

I, like most people here, have had kids of that age. If they're annoying people you stop them, distract then, or remove them.

It's not up to their auntie to do that. If she did her SIL would probably be posting on here to say that she'd overstepped.

coconuthead · 31/08/2022 21:08

GhostFromTheOtherSide · 31/08/2022 10:20

Thing is that we live in a society where a brat is either considered spirited or must have SN.

While you might not necessarily say something to the parents, the reality is that we have got to a point in society where children are not allowed to be corrected, not allowed to lose, not allowed to be upset in any way shape or form and that is setting them up for a terrible adulthood.

We have a generation of children who have never been expected to accept being told no, and those children are in for a hell of a shock wen they grow up and enter the real world.

People are telling the OP that she and her family should be responsible for stepping in, so god forbid that the parents be seen as in the wrong for refusing to parent their bratty child, no, it’s all the family’s fault for not stepping in.

But here’s the thing: in a few months that child will be starting school. And his behaviour will see him isolated by other parents. He won’t be invited to parties, sleepovers, parents will want their children to avoid him because of his behaviour. And then it will be those children and parents who get the blame as opposed to the parents who have refused to parent the child in the first place.

I wouldn’t suggest they parent their child differently, but if they invite you out again I would say no, and would say that it’s because of their child.

This. We have one in my DDs class, none of the parents like her or want her round their houses, because quite frankly, she's a nightmare and horrible. I've seen her parents and they are re the same, no discipline whatsoever.

Original poster
MatronicO6 · 31/08/2022 21:25

Babyboomtastic · 31/08/2022 14:31

His behaviour was rubbish and the parents should have been dealing with it more, BUT

Your mentions that this grandchild has had a lot of attention and your baby didnt get a look in makes me think there is some jealously here.

The comments about the young babies being perfectly behaved made me laugh - babies have a temperament, but they dont have behaviour.

Whether they are doing a good job or not, they've been doing it for 4 years, you, not even 4 months yet. I think it's a bit premature to go acting like you've got parenting sussed already, and it won't go down well. You can't compare the 'behaviour' of a baby who can't even sit up, let alone cause mischief, and a nearly school age child'.

They know their child's behaviour is challenging. Either they are too exhausted to do anything about it, are struggling, or don't care. None of these will be assisted by your comments.

Just don't go on holiday with them until his behaviour improves (by which time you'll probably have a not quite so perfect toddler).

I meant their new baby didn't get a look in. I obviously did not compare his behaviour to that of a 4 month old baby. I simply meant that the new babies were a breeze as I was very worried/stressed/panicked about our first holiday with a baby.

I never claimed to have parenting 'sussed,' I'm completely winging it. Hence why I'm here asking other parents what they would recommend.

OP posts:
Original poster
MatronicO6 · 31/08/2022 21:35

coconuthead · 31/08/2022 21:08

This. We have one in my DDs class, none of the parents like her or want her round their houses, because quite frankly, she's a nightmare and horrible. I've seen her parents and they are re the same, no discipline whatsoever.

Show quote history

This is what I am most worried about.

I'm actually a teacher and have a lot of experience with SN, it's not that.

I also have a lot of experience of kids like this in classes and know they struggle to play and build friendships and can often be isolated from their peers. They can struggle when things don't go their way and react aggressively. They can constantly seek the attention of the teacher and resent other pupils getting attention. They will likely be out on a support plan with personalized reward chart and home support (which parents often resent.)

On the other hand they can turn into angels in school when greeted with a very clear set of boundaries and expectations. It could go either way.

OP posts:
Midpmcoffee · 01/09/2022 07:32

Op

You dont live in the same country as them
You hadn’t seen them for a year

Just put the holiday to back of mind and get in with your life. Next year - if you do decide to go on holiday with them, perhaps make it a short one (in any event I reckon you’ll see a difference in the child for a better over a year. 4 is very tricky for some (my son, I still shudder at the memory. Whereas my daughter… dreamy)

If you were next door neighbours or even lived in same country - there may be an argument for you having a quiet word with your bro over a coffee. But see each other once a year, don’t live in same country- let it go!

Midpmcoffee · 01/09/2022 07:36

MatronicO6 · 31/08/2022 10:02

Actually 4 month old now. Her and other baby were good as gold

Show quote history

I find it odd to describe 4month olds as being “as good as gold”.

in your opinion, how would a 4 month behave if they weren’t as “good as gold”?

Original poster
MatronicO6 · 01/09/2022 08:00

Midpmcoffee · 01/09/2022 07:36

I find it odd to describe 4month olds as being “as good as gold”.

in your opinion, how would a 4 month behave if they weren’t as “good as gold”?

Show quote history

FFS I have already said it was just an expression as I was very nervous about going in holiday. Was worried they would interrupt restaurants with crying, being unsettled etc.

I find it odd that you have commented on this post so many times. I find it odd that you thought you had some kind of "gotcha" moment by stating I too had a baby. I find it odd you seemed to think two female members of same family couldn't have a baby around same time. I find it odd that you have commented on this post so many times, though experience tells me it has most likely hit a nerve with you.

As I have said, I'm taking the advice of the many helpful comments and saying nothing. I hope it all works out but I recognise it's not my place to say anything.

OP posts:
Midpmcoffee · 01/09/2022 08:08

My point stands

you don’t live in same country
you hadn’t seen them for a year
no mention of any plans to see them in foreseeable future
the DN is in for a huge change with starting school

dont say anything and wait and see.

Midpmcoffee · 01/09/2022 08:09

I wonder how many relationships would have gone down the tubes pre mumsnet with OPs needing anonymous posters to advise them on how to conduct relationships with close family members 😂

MrsLargeEmbodied · 01/09/2022 08:12

not your place unless you see traits you recognise
just help

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 01/09/2022 08:43

You have had a lot of weird responses here OP, normally on mumsnet if you're disturbed at a restaurant by kids running wild while the parents don't discipline them at all then (assuming no SN) they get good support

I wouldnt say anything if your SiL has a history of being upset at other adults telling her child to stop when he is doing something he shouldn't.

I would avoid another holiday like the plague though. Its not ok for a whole group of people to be made consistently late for restaurant reservations because they've got to wait for a kid who wont finish playing. It's not ok to have the accommodation wrecked by one member of the party. It's not ok to have every meal interrupted and ruined by a child running riot (I know at 4 it's hard to sit down and eat for a long time but assuming you're only having a main and bringing colouring etc he should be able to manage that). So if they ask again I would say no because it seemed to overwhelm their son last time and you think it might be better to holidsy separately (or at least stay in separate properties and eat out separately but meet up in the day). If they insist them you can always comment on the things that affect you eg you found it difficult in the restaurant to enjoy your food with all the running about etc but not sure that will go down well.

I would never ever mention a lot of the other things such as how they let him choose what parent he wants even if the baby is being fed etc as that is pretty much a direct attack on their parenting and I doubt they will tie it to his behaviour at all

I fear it will come to a head at some point if you continue to see much of them...people will forgive a pre schooler for this behaviour but not an older child. also when the babies are old enough to be crawling around on the floor and left alone a bit more, I'd be concerned about how gentle he would be with them or their things if he likes to destroy things.

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 01/09/2022 08:44

Were your parents on holiday as well or just them? If so what do they think about it?

Original poster
MatronicO6 · 01/09/2022 09:05

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 01/09/2022 08:44

Were your parents on holiday as well or just them? If so what do they think about it?

Yes, my mum was horrified but felt she couldn't step in/say anything as in the past SIL reacted badly to this. But she told me about some other incidents which have happened in the last year or so. She was the one that suggested I say something as I'm a teacher but I pointed out this is very different to a T giving feedback about school behavior. This is very personal.

My dad, who is the most laid back grandfather, in complete adoration of his grandson also conceded the holiday was a bit of a disaster due to DN and that he is "a bit spoilt." He actually bought neighbouring tables a round of drinks in one restaurant as an apology in one of the restaurants.

OP posts: