To say something about DN behavior?

[MatronicO6]

Have a nephew first grandchild in family so got a lot of attention for himself for a 4 years. He has always been energetic and lively but I am absolutely shocked by his behavior on recent holiday.

Things he has done:
In every restaurant runs around shouting, crawls under table, when finally sitting at table he loudly shouts inappropriate things (mummy farts, daddy has a willy) so whole restaurant can hear. We got some horrified looks from nearby tables whose meal was clearly interrupted

Would refuse to leave playgrounds. Had to go to every playground he saw and then refuse to leave. Basically affecting following plans/dinner reservations etc

New 3 month baby sibling he would demand to be with whatever parent had the baby. So baby would have to be put down. At one point when his mum was breastfeeding at a quiet cafe he banged and screamed at window to get her out.

Destroyed property of Airbnb. Threw games on ground and refused to pick up.

Ignored parents constantly. Every time they asked h to do something he would ignore, pretend he didn't hear or walk away

Despite ordering sausage or burger at every meal when offered at a bbq he suddenly didn't either and demanded mum go get him beans,which she had t drive to a British shop forin Middle of feeding other baby

On top of that found out when he goes to others houses who has a toy he likes he will refuse to leave until he is given said toy.

The whole holiday was a nightmare because of him, every day was just exhausting. And all his mum and dad do is gently tell him he shouldn't do that or this after about ten mins of him throwing stuff. I could go on and on but these are main takeaways from this holiday.

Feel like I need to say something to B and SIL but don't know if it's my place! Would you want to be told or let them get on with it?

So when do you start to expect them to behave like civilised human beings, or at least not make the experiences of not just their family but perfect strangers in a social setting a misery? Fifteen? Twenty two.? Thirty eight? Or never, because it’s just too late to start .

I think most kids start to become human again at around 4 - but this little boy has a new sibling and was away from home and out of routine so I think it's understandable if that's been delayed a little.

I'm not saying the parents handled this perfectly, just that I can see how the situation arose. OP doesn't describe any attempts of the wider family to play with and distract the little boy, who was probably bored out of his mind, and she seems to think a three month old baby can demonstrate good behaviour, so I'm inclined to feel sympathetic to the parents.

My 2yo is capable of acting like this at least 20% of the time. The rest of the time he is a delight.

When he acts up in public or in front of family I am VERY aware of what he’s doing.

They know. Offer support. Take him for a walk. Find a toy to distract him. Why would you be a dick and “have a word” like they aren’t doing everything they can?

She isn't "the lone voice"; I for one agree with her.

I'd just tell them you won't be spending time with them because of his behaviour - no need to elaborate.

It was autocorrect. Couldn't be bothered correcting, perfectly aware it has a 'u.'

BTW, "wrongly" should come before clause. You should have said YABU for wrongly spelling behaviour so many times. With a full stop for accurate punctuation. You're welcome! 😁

I wouldn't comment retrospectively, that won't make them parent any differently, but I would have told him to sit down and behave at the time.

I also would never in a million years have gone on holiday with them, knowing what he's like. Certainly wouldn't repeat the experience.

Nicely done OP, very nicely done indeed 😄👏👏

OP while I might have some sympathy with you the fact that you described the babies as ‘good as gold’ says it all. Come back in 4 years time & let us know how it’s all working out!

Love it.

For heavens sake! What the OP meant, and what everyone who isn’t grinding the it’s okay to let kids spoil everyone else’s dinner axe knows she meant is that they slept peacefully throughout. If they had wakened and shrieked, presumably they would have been taken out until they had quietened.
Re everyone who says that when this child and his ilk go to school his behaviour will be commented on and resolved : isn’t that putting rather a lot onto the school. What about the children who can sit quietly and attempt to learn something? I suppose they just have to come second to Mr get his own way.

He sounds like a little shit, but it’s not your place to question their parenting(unless you’re providing childcare for them). Just avoid going out with them and they’ll probably get the hint.

You’ll come across plenty of people in the future whose parenting you’ll disagree with, but unless you want to fall out with everyone, you will learn to avoid or ignore!

@Allthegoodnamesarechosen no that isn’t what I thought she meant. I’m not sure what she meant in that a baby can’t be well behaved- they can be settled or unsettled. But you’re saying that a baby sleeping through the night is good behaviour? Ok then.
By the way I’m not justifying poor parenting or lack of boundaries. The point I’m making is that it’s very easy to judge when you have a 4 month old baby. I know I probably did but now I have a 4 year old myself I have a different perspective!

His behaviour was rubbish and the parents should have been dealing with it more, BUT

Your mentions that this grandchild has had a lot of attention and your baby didnt get a look in makes me think there is some jealously here.

The comments about the young babies being perfectly behaved made me laugh - babies have a temperament, but they dont have behaviour.

Whether they are doing a good job or not, they've been doing it for 4 years, you, not even 4 months yet. I think it's a bit premature to go acting like you've got parenting sussed already, and it won't go down well. You can't compare the 'behaviour' of a baby who can't even sit up, let alone cause mischief, and a nearly school age child'.

They know their child's behaviour is challenging. Either they are too exhausted to do anything about it, are struggling, or don't care. None of these will be assisted by your comments.

Just don't go on holiday with them until his behaviour improves (by which time you'll probably have a not quite so perfect toddler).

Shit parenting! If myself or my Sister had behaved like this we'd have being dragged out of the restaurant, the park, the beach or someone's house. If we'd have kicked off because we suddenly decided we didn't like burgers or sausages at a BBQ our Parents wouldn't drive off to find a English supermarket. It would be tough shite take it or leave it. I remember giving my Mum some lip whilst round at my Nana and Grandads. Before I could even blink I was practically out the door and inside the car. It meant I missed out on my weekly treats whilst we were there but it taught me a lesson not to it again. DN behaves this way because he knows full well he can get a way with it.

Having a baby makes things more difficult, but that's a lazy excuse for this level of disobedience. It's possible to have a baby and a 4-yo and still maintain some semblance of order, but no-one said it would be easy. It requires setting and enforcing rules of conduct for the older child.

They're not doing him any favours, letting him run wild. He'll eventually come up against a person in authority who won't accept such poor behaviour, and the experience will be unpleasant for both him and them. Eventually he'll grow out of it or be corrected by someone other than his parents, but in the meantime I don't think you'll accomplish anything other than offending them if you speak to them about it.

You have made a lot of assumptions about this situation and my family. You have literally asked zero questions for clarity or context, think you're the judgemental one here.

My four year old is pretty good and we're pretty strict, but her behaviour has gone to pot the last few weeks with the lack of structure over the summer. Add in a new sibling, a holiday to a strange place with a big extended family and big expectations on his behaviour like eating out everyday and the child was probably feeling all over the place and overstimulated.

This. My 4 year old has ADHD and although he is well behaved the majority of the time, if he's overtired, overstimulated and out of his usual routine he might well display some of the behaviours OP describes, as do a lot of kids that age whether they have additional needs or not. We don't do holidays with extended family for this reason.

OP YANBU to find your DN's behaviour challenging. YWNBU to decide you'd rather not holidays with them again for this reason. But IMO you would be massively unreasonable to "say something" to his parents. What would you even say? That their child was poorly behaved on holidau? They know, they were there! Or are you planning to tell them that you think they're rubbish parents, even though your baby is 3 months old so you have zero experience of parenting a child who is actually capable of misbehaving?? Before I had DC and when our youngest was a baby I used to look at older kids acting up in public and think "why don't the parents just make them behave?" Now I realise how naive and judgemental I was. If you do choose to "say something" be mindful your words could come back to bite you!

Say nothing but actively avoid them.

I have zero tolerance for this type of lazy parenting that simply doesn't care if their child's behaviour impacts others.

So selfish.

Pull away, it will only get worse and you will not want your child growing up around it.

@MatronicO6 feel free to add any relevant details - I've read all of your posts so far. Yes I'm judging you for being so overtly blaming of your SIL's parenting in an unhelpful way. It's AIBU so you invited judgment either way.

I have experienced plenty of spoiled kids with soft parents. When they stayed with me they were fine because I had my rules the same for guests as for my kids. However, one of the kids who I thought was spoiled, was actually autistic.

They have all grown up to be great people so no bad lasting effects (which I must admit I thought would happen).

Decline their invites and if they ask why tell them. Their parenting is letting him down and that it is not a pleasant experience spending time with him due to his behaviour and their lack of reaction to it. Having another child is no excuse.

Whereas I explicitly asked twice (this will be third!)

what is your relationship like with your brother and SIL aside from this issue?

Actually 4 month old now. Her and other baby were good as gold

Which is nothing to do with your parenting! 🙄

Oh apologies, been a bit hard to keep up to speed with all the posts. I have a great relationship with my brother and SIL. They are great company and both very considerate and kind people. My family is close and supportive but we don't live in each other's pockets.

I actually live abroad, we moved a couple of years ago. I used to see them much more and regularly babysat nephew. He was and still is a very intelligent and engaging boy. He is actually very articulate and has a budding sense of humour. Haven't seen him since last summer when he was a bit calmer, we had a great time in family holiday last year.

My brother has previously come to me about issues he was worried about for me (relationships, career wise) so I would like to think he would be open to me speaking to him.

But people can be different about their kids. I also know that when my mum raised concerns about some things SIL was not very appreciative.
She also made a comment when one of my brothers tried to intervene and discipline DN. Hence the impression they don't want others to discipline him.