To say something about DN behavior?

[MatronicO6]

Have a nephew first grandchild in family so got a lot of attention for himself for a 4 years. He has always been energetic and lively but I am absolutely shocked by his behavior on recent holiday.

Things he has done:
In every restaurant runs around shouting, crawls under table, when finally sitting at table he loudly shouts inappropriate things (mummy farts, daddy has a willy) so whole restaurant can hear. We got some horrified looks from nearby tables whose meal was clearly interrupted

Would refuse to leave playgrounds. Had to go to every playground he saw and then refuse to leave. Basically affecting following plans/dinner reservations etc

New 3 month baby sibling he would demand to be with whatever parent had the baby. So baby would have to be put down. At one point when his mum was breastfeeding at a quiet cafe he banged and screamed at window to get her out.

Destroyed property of Airbnb. Threw games on ground and refused to pick up.

Ignored parents constantly. Every time they asked h to do something he would ignore, pretend he didn't hear or walk away

Despite ordering sausage or burger at every meal when offered at a bbq he suddenly didn't either and demanded mum go get him beans,which she had t drive to a British shop forin Middle of feeding other baby

On top of that found out when he goes to others houses who has a toy he likes he will refuse to leave until he is given said toy.

The whole holiday was a nightmare because of him, every day was just exhausting. And all his mum and dad do is gently tell him he shouldn't do that or this after about ten mins of him throwing stuff. I could go on and on but these are main takeaways from this holiday.

Feel like I need to say something to B and SIL but don't know if it's my place! Would you want to be told or let them get on with it?

Whose idea was the holiday? Kids often behave worse when out of routine and having a new sibling. I can't think why they accepted going on a family holiday with a new baby and a 4 year old if they weren't receiving help, just judgment...

by coincidence the op also has a 3 month old!

I don't know if you're new to Mumsnet but often posters read the first response and understand the logic so all give the same answer rather than thinking it through themselves.

Often the 'lone voice' makes a very valid point that everyone else is too scared to make.

My siblings are having babies within two weeks of each other. What difference does that make?

Heavy discipline when you've got a new 3 month old sibling is recommended by no one, zero parenting experts.

Praising the good and ignoring the bad is a very common parenting strategy otoh.

Grandparents, other family paying the older sibling more attention and helping out to make them feel like they still matter - sure that's recommended.

Not sure what your family dynamics are like but my brothers would 100% tell me the craic and tell my children off if they were acting like that to help me out 🤣. As a parent you are aware of how your child is acting so I'm surprised they haven't said sorry for him being such a nightmare or asked for help while he's acting like that.

@girlmom21

so you agree that the op should say something?

what could you possibly say to them ?

They can see their child is misbehaving, but ignore it.

Say nothing as it won't go well.

You’ve nothing to gain by saying anything. But you know to limit time with them. It sounds exhausting and shit. He’s not to blame, they are, but they’ll only get defensive.

Their choice to ignore it…

Yep it is their choice to ignore it.

and it is that choice which then inflicts this type of child on everyone around them.

Good on them if they’ve managed to synthesise a natural Prozac that stops them from hearing or seeing this stuff

meanwhile the rest of us, who have also had DCs, have to watch someone cannon around a restaurant or equivalent just because their parents are too nice to say “no”.

You’re right @AnneLovesGilbert that they’ll inevitably get defensive, but ..

how did we get to this place in society where no one, not even relatives, can ever help someone else to be better or to recognise a potential issue?

I cannot stand bratty children so I would say something, but I'd also step up to help. Taking nephew somewhere calm or spending one on one time with him doing a quiet activity. He's maybe over stimulated & overwhelmed.
Holiday, meals out, new sibling x

@MatronicO6 So how did you and the other adults address the situation in the restaurant? Or did you all simply sit there "ignoring" judging it and said nothing?

If you did actually have a back bone and say/do something, what was their response?

I agree that rather than judging maybe you could step in & help. Try & distract? Don’t get me wrong he sounds very hard work but as others have said it’s the summer holidays & he has a new sibling. The parents are probably exhausted.

Totally understand this as i also struggle with one of our family DC behaviour (and think parents could do more). It's really frustrating and i find it embarrassing when it's in front of others. But i don't think you should say anything. I have bitten my tongue before but i've also reached the end of my tether and told DC off when the parents were doing nothing. It achieved nothing, DC had an enormous meltdown (over something small - basically to take your example it would have been calmly telling them not to shout inappropriate things in a restaurant) and there was a nasty atmosphere for a few hours after.

It's really unlikely that they'll take any comments from you well and it's likely that they've made that parenting choice and that your approach is different. I will not go to a restaurant with family DC any more due to their behaviour but i've never made a big deal of it i always just gently deflect with something like "wouldnt a takeaway be easier" and do it that way.

I agree the OP should (or should have at the time) tell her brother to step up and parent his child rather than letting him wreak havoc, destroy things and ruin strangers meals, yes.

Yes I do, don't know what that has to do with his behavior.

I did tell him to sit down and to speak more quietly as did other adults but it's really awkward when parents don't. Feel at times when I did say something to him SIL was a bit affronted.

Maybe because we’re also at a time where people make statements such as “no one is allowed to correct my child except me….”

Actually 4 month old now. Her and other baby were good as gold

You don't see what having a new baby sibling has to do with his behaviour, and you all told him off and made your disapproval clear but didn't distract, or actively help?

You and the rest of the family are part of the problem. I wouldn't mind an engaged adult correcting my child but someone just telling them off without offering anything positive would certainly not be met well by most people.

Me and both of my sisters all had babies within 6 months of each other. Our 3 kids grew up very close.

OP just stay away from them. Limit visits to them, and never go away with them again. They know he’s badly behaved, they don’t care.

I also want to make clear that I know this behavior is not his fault but down to parents, hence why I am asking should I say.

I think I would be comfortable to say to my B but concerned more about SIL response. Think their have been comments in past when his behavior was addressed by others that she didn't receive it will. But as he gets older it is more concerning and his behavior becoming more extreme. There is many more behaviors he has been displaying and incidents that are too outing to mention on here.

Have you ever thought they know exactly how their child is behaving? They are sick and tired of shouting every time they go everywhere. They're embarrassed? They're trying to show that even with a new baby and the older child, they're trying but really they're struggling?

So go ahead, if you want to really upset either of them, tell them what a brat their child is... or you could offer some help to them!

And what are you and the family doing to spend positive time with your DN?

Sounds like nothing except judging.

And you wonder why your SIL isn't receptive to negative criticism of her parenting.