I have outgrown men

[Namechanged007]

Before all the namalt brigade come along I'm well aware.

Thing is it's true I have outgrown the ridiculouness and childishness of men.

I'm married but even so I feel like I'd be better off alone most of the time. Nothing wrong with dh as such but I'm more able and stronger alone.

I have just been to the pub and all the women were complimentary of each other. Going with the flow. And enjoying themselves. The men were either grumpy or showing brovado. There was an incident on our table that involved new men intimidating each other and I just went home.

The thing is this isn't a table of young men. It's professionals and grown ups. I just cant be bothered with it.

None of the women got involved but it spoilt the night.

I told dh I don't have time for such pathetic behaviour.

It never ends. It doesn't matter how old or wise we become men seem to revert back to this strange behaviour.

I deal with it day in day out at my work and I simply can't be bothered. If I never had to see another man, mansplaining, dominating conversation, throwing their weight around, bravado, dick measuring, causing a scene in my life it would be too soon.

Absolutely done with it.

There are several good series like this...
A fine romance
As time goes by
Waiting for God

A bit old but from a time of gentler comedy.

I wouldn't latch on to that theory too tightly to explain anti men sentiments. You should hear how the young women in my office speak about men. If anything I think young women can be far less tolerant and more critical, as the bar for male behaviour is rightfully higher than it was in the past.
Also, the older women on the thread are not talking about general happiness, they are specifically talking about discontent/dissatisfaction with men.

@5128gap

I'll not take much notice of your anecdotal 'evidence' which will always back your view up of course

And yes, but people who are generally miserable often funnel that into one or two areas of blame, then focus their efforts into 'fixing' those

It happens often when people can't identify why they're unhappy, they pick an area to fix and keep going until they're happy

Explains why many go through mid life crisis's, picking areas to fix. Their hair, car, house, area, spouse, jobs

You should hear how the young women in my office speak about men. If anything I think young women can be far less tolerant and more critical, as the bar for male behaviour is rightfully higher than it was in the past.

It's some time since I was young but even then the girls in the office were very critical of the men. It was a largely male environment so they had the pick and were often seeing several at a time. It was a question of who as vest in bed and who spent the most on them. (They were also bullies and talked about each other when one wasn't there, hated the place)

Thank you for starting this thread @Namechanged007 Some very articulate women sharing their experiences.

I've put up with the antagonism and misogyny of many men. I've seen the varying degrees of bullying behaviour directed at my mum, sister and friends by their male spouses. It is what it is and I was chugging along with a low-level malaise and resignation "Men eh! What can you do?" kind of feeling.

But reading about so many women here share their feelings is making me examine male toxic behaviour much more clearly. The selfishness, the churlishness, ego-centric twattery- it is just too depressing for words.

So you and the women in your family put up with shit men, and therefore men as a sex are toxic?

For every woman like you there are women who have never experienced this. Maybe if bars were set higher this entire thread wouldn't need to exist

Yet presumably people are expected to give weight to your amateur psychology and half formed theories?
You can no more prove your points than I can my anecdotes, so your superior tone is quite misplaced.

That sounds unpleasant.
Though I'm sure @PainsandAches will trot over in a moment to tell you that we should discount 'anecdotes'.

@5128gap

Your views are based on chats with some younger women at work

Mine are based on multiple studies into the main factors and then using this information to form an opinion

One which makes a lot more sense than half the population being twats, especially as there seems to be a general trend among those with that view on here

You have no idea of either my views or on what they are based.
You are making assumptions based on the fact that I provided an anecdote that didn't support your theory.
If you were as serious about research as you claim, you would be willing to consider all evidence, including the anecdotal, rather than only that which supported your own agenda.
You cannot be so naive as to imagine only older women express dissatisfaction with men, but admitting that exposes a flaw in your theory, so you have taken the lazy option of dismissing it.

So you and the women in your family put up with shit men, and therefore men as a sex are toxic?

Yes. Yes they are. Men as a sex ARE toxic. It has nothing to do with the fact women in my family put up with this shit. If the abusive men were booted out, they'd just go and spew their poison somewhere else.

For every woman like you there are women who have never experienced this.

Good. I am really glad. And I mean that sincerely. No woman should be on the receiving end of bad male behaviour. It is a deeply unpleasant experience. At its worst, it can end up being actually dangerous to the woman.

Maybe if bars were set higher this entire thread wouldn't need to exist.

Ha! I could set the bar as high as the moon. What good would that do? As PP mentioned, most men don an appealing mask during a woman's reproductive years to woo her. By the time she has kids, she is in a financially and physically vulnerable position and it is much much harder to walk away when the man's true personality breaks through.

Unless a woman is mentally in a very bad place with low self-esteem, trust me she won't fall into a relationship with the first geezer who comes along. Women on the whole have much, much higher standards.

There have been hundreds of years of entitled selfish male behaviour. If men as a whole do not reflect and grow with their changing roles, it doesnt make a blind bit of difference to how high a woman sets her bars...

But your bar isn't high

You've already made this clear

@5128gap

Your anecdote didn't disagree with me at all

I have no doubt younger women are setting their bars higher

It's probably what accounts for younger men being less likely to display the behaviours moaned about on this thread

Being critical of anyone is a good thing, unfortunately many older women didn't do this and ended up with males most these days wouldn't touch with a barge pole

Thus tainting their view

Ive had two husband and several relationships and I'd never live with another man or have another relationship. I find them complete bores governed by their reproductive organs.

Women, not people. Men are unhappier after divorce, apparently.

This thread is about the deal that women are making for themselves, in heterosexual relationships. Even all this "study" stuff (which has been going since the 1970s where one study says single women are happier than married, and then another comes in to say the opposite) is kind of telling. The fact that this argument cycles around and has done for 50 years means it is not settled.

What doesn't seem to be accepted that well is that women talk about it, and structure their lives differently because they don't like dominant male behaviour or the compromises they make do the nuclear family deal (which definitely does men more good than women).

What’s with the back and forth?
Like it’s going to change anything.
Vast majority of ”older” women are/have been in a marriage and had kids.
They’ve already server the patriarchy, no one actually care what they’re going to do next, they don’t have want men/patriarchy wants, anymore.

Younger women aren’t going to listen.
Hormones raging, gotta get the next thing, gotta do what’s been told will bring happiness, gotta do what friends are doing, gotta get that social status symbol.
Vast majority wants a relationship, that’s a fact.
Most women have very low standards, if they are high, two things happen.

1. Society pushes them down, all over women are told put up with shit, expect less, lower their standards.
2. They womn’t find a man, so eventually they settle for less.

This big talk about independent single women isin’t really happening in real life.
Almost everyone wants a relationship/marriage/kids, so they’ll get it.

Its an interesting question though. Do older women have insufferable partners because they set their bar too low, or did they pick a perfectly tolerable young man who has become insufferable with age?
I'd agree that typically, younger men display less of these behaviours, and that there's a lot of external reasons likely contributing to that. But will they acquire at least some of the obnoxious traits as they get older?
By the time my partner gets to 'that age' I'll probably be dead, so I'll never know. But would be interested in whether those in long relationships feel their partner was always awful or if he gradually declined.

I have posted on this thread already but I thought I would add this which I just saw in the Evening Standard: a link to a story that 170 serving Met police officers are being investigated for domestic violence...

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/metropolitan-police-officers-domestic-abuse-violence-allegatons-under-investigation-b1022356.html

A lot of people on this thread have been trying to refute the fact that there are issues about how men behave and are allowed to behave in our society.

I think it is a dreadful situation when the police officers, who are supposed to protect us, abuse women behind close doors.

Yet another illustration as to why many of us are cautious about letting men into our lives.

Well it doesn’t say they are all male MET officers being investigated.
Secondly only 170 accusations out of a population of 33,792 MET police officers is incredibly low. Based on the CSEW, 5% of adults experience domestic abuse every year.
If the MET were having domestic abusers at the same rate as the general population, we’d expect to see 1,689 reports. But at only 170, that means you’re 10 times safer with a MET police officer partner than with a nonMET police officer.
Obviously any domestic abuse is dreadful, but let’s not forget context in all this.

Thought I’d seen it all with the making of excuses for male violence, but Discovereads can still amaze. 🙄

It's a fair point though.

Seems a bit silly to be like 'OMG! 170 Met officers, good lawdy' when it's actually a comparatively low figure.

In fact, I'm pretty sure the average woman is statistically more likely to commit DV than a Met officer.

I think you will find the average woman is NOT statistically more likely to commit DV than the average Met officer.

The police are supposed to have stringent ethical and professional standards. Are we being invited to wave away the fact that a proportion of Met policemen, however small, are in fact criminals? Shame on you for suggesting that’s just all statistically fine.

Some of the posters on this thread have betrayed some very dubious moral standards, to be honest. And waving away men’s criminal violence with statistics is disgraceful. Take a good look at yourselves.

I think you will find the average woman is NOT statistically more likely to commit DV than the average Met officer.

Well, if the usual figure is almost 1700 and met officers commit 170, that's just over 10% as much as a normal man.

Women commit about 40% of DV so therefore they commit significantly more than the average met officer. I'm sure you'll refute the 40%, but either way it's defo higher than 10%

What's your source for the 40% please?

Ketchup and mustard please. 👍