To think that Liz Truss as PM will mean a Labour government?

[VicToryA]

I am no fan of this so-called Conservative government (thanks to Brexit and lockdowns, both of which I detest). So I suppose I'm a lifelong centre-ish Conservative with a desire not to have a bunch of loony lefties in control, but with no real political home at the moment.

Given a choice between Truss and Sunak, I would have to choose Sunak. I know, though, that it will end up with Truss as PM.

AIBU to think this will mean a Labour government and years in the political wilderness for the Conservative party?

There's a saying in politics than opposition don't win elections so much as governments lose them. That applied to Gordon Brown and Labour in 2010 as well. Starmer might not have charisma (Johnson did and is completely incompetent so voters may have had their fill of chancers anyway) but the Tories will lose the next election all by themselves. They've completely lost control.

Loony lefties?

Who don't know what a woman is?

Fuck's sake.

They get the working class vote because of the Daily Mail.

Now fair's fair, the Tories treat everyone like shit (unless they're rich). Equal opportunities.

That’s not a policy. It’s a soundbite. A policy has sustained impact on a structural problem or opportunity. Like starting shale gas production within a year, or increasing North Sea production, or incentivizing infrastructure project for renewable.

Freezing energy costs is GCSE economics. Not even that. This is a supply side crisis. You can’t freeze prices on something your don’t control the supply of. You’re just subsidizing it. How do you do that - tax, borrowing or QE. All of those have proven to be a disaster for the economy, although borrowing less so over the last 25 years.

Unfortunately I agree with you. I think people will carry on voting Tory en masse no matter what and Labour will lose again unless they do a coalition with the Lib Dems beforehand.
I also think that the Lib Dems will do well and their share of the vote will continue to rise.

Well said StoneofDestiny

Sick to the back teeth of this argument - the Tories treat women like sh*t constantly, but still somehow get a fair hand? Yes the current useless blob of a PM and Tory MPs themselves are openly sexist, but their policies have been terrible for women since 2010:

• Closing surestart centres left and right, leaving parents (mainly women) the choice of extortionate nursery fees or not going to work
• Many more women than men work in public services which are all on the brink of strikes due to lack of wage increases
• Cuts to social services have been catastrophic since 2010, and they have shut down many domestic violence refuges which are vital for women

Not to mention the latest crisis which will no doubt impact women and mothers the most - what have the Tories done about it? F all - total radio silence this morning, until they emerged to tell us we'd have to "ration" because of the war. No doubt women/mothers will be leading most households (not all) on the toughest decisions on whether to heat or eat.

So if my anger towards this sh*tshow makes me a "looney lefty" so be it. How anyone on Mumsnet can support this government is beyond me.

If anybody actually opened their ears and listened to Keir Starmer, they'd hear some rational, calm solutions for most things. Just because he's not a performing monkey idiot like Johnson doesn't mean he's no good.

Funny how they didn't get the working class vote in 2015 or 2017 or any other recent election.

2019 was all about Brexit and the character of Boris hoodwinking the same weird psyche of the English as Jimmy Savile did. The eccentric, blathering, scruffy blonde tit.

Uhuh.

remind me what the tories have said today again?

@User135644 I disagree! They got the working class vote in 2015 and 2017 too!!

Don't underestimate the ability of the Labour party to throw their lead away.

Let’s hope so.

God it's like Daily Mail bingo in here.

Anyway, here's a recent poll:

Westminster voting intention:

LAB: 43% (+3)
CON: 31% (-3)
LDEM: 11% (-1)
GRN: 6% (+1)

This has been pretty reflective of the polls for several months now.

I think the country have had enough of the Tory party putting their millionaire mates above the rest of the population. I don't think it matters who they have as leader come September. They are in their dying days of government regardless.

People vote Tory from a position of i'm alright jack or relative wealth. Homeowners for example who have benefited from booming property prices, relative to what they paid, and on the property ladder. It's the hosing market that is their saving grace in that sense. But the Tories do terribly with under 40s because Millenials and Zoomers have struggled to get on the housing ladder, have had stagnant wages and little hope after 12 years of austerity and terrible governance. The Tories are basically relying on pensioners. Pensioners who will struggle to heat their homes this christmas, so they can no longer just rely on them as a voting block.

2019 an exception because the working class were brainwashed over Brexit which is going to hurt the Tories in the long run because it'll hit people in the pocket.

Yougov have given Labour a 15-point lead, two years before the next general election.

The last time that Yougov gave Labour a 15-point lead was in 2013, again two years before a general election. Cameron ended up turning his minority into a majority.

Not in the same numbers (Labour got 40% in 2017). But the delusion of Brexit was also a factor in those elections. The reality of Brexit and everything that has gone wrong under the Tories will be a bigger factor in the next one. It's an open goal for Labour.

How can you say "sadly"?
The Tories have completely screwed this country since 2010.
Can't wait to see the back of them. More's the pity they won't end up in prison where they belong.

Boris was not the reason Brexit happened.
We had one chance only to ever vote to leave the EU. People who never ever vote did so .
72% of those who could vote did, 30 Million. The election was lost because about 12 Million people didn't bother to vote. Most of those being under retirement age at the time.

I don't normally agree with a word you say but (partly) on this i do.

Freezing the cap is stupid, its unaffordable as we don't know how long this will go on for and will subsidise the well off, there are 2.5m millionaires in the UK, they don't need help with 'bills or shouldn't be a priority.

BTW Shale gas production is a decade away, if at all, NS Gas increases are perhaps 3 or 4 years.

Labour had a golden opportunity to impress with some radical ideas, instead we got a LibDem policy.

@User135644 I agree that Brexit was a huge factor in 2019 and gave the Tories the landslide.
But the working class still vote Tory because it's aspirational - thought of course they're unaware of being targeted by the right wing media.
Add to that, Keir Starmer not being a particularly charismatic leader and the distrust with Labour's front bench especially because of "I'm afraid there is no money" DM headlne from 2010.

Why are intelligent people against Labour? I am grieved and astonished to think that people want a Tory government to continue, especially if they have children or may ever need health care. The economy flourished under Labour and the shambolic Tory handling of the pandemic and brexit have been an economically disastrous. I hope the Tory heartland old fools vote for Liz Truss as she is absolutely unelectable by any sane electorate.

True but there was nothing like this happening in 2013.

Of course, the war in Ukraine might end next year, Putin is killed and a pro Western leader is put in place, gas prices plummet, Covid vanishes and the world economy booms as we go into 2024.

Then i woke up.

Loony Lefties?

People do remember it was the Tory Prime Minister who talked about Peppa Pig to the Confederation of British Industries, compared himself to Moses and imitated the noise of a revving car.

So Tory voters think this represents sanity and appropriate government?

The term 'loony lefties' is about as clichéd a term as it comes. It makes one think that it's hardly worth engaging as it is like having a conversation with a Daily Mail front page.

Liz Truss is not unelectable.
Again and why can't you see this, Labour come across to Joe Bloggs as a crap show. Joe Bloggs and all his mates are floating voters and the trust issues they have with the Labour MPs, plus the lack of any real policys that make sense means either they won't vote, or they Vote Tory just to vote because they are at the booth, means Labour will lose.
Labour just don't seem able to grab the victory and none of us know why.