Is it possible as a state school parent to emulate a private school education & how would a motivated one start?

[Superspender]

This thread is triggered from all the recent press about the Cambridges & Lambrook press.. Basically the press are harping on about the time spent outdoors etc, surely parents can do this for free etc.. Out of interest how can a motivated parent who can't afford private school emulate a private school education? Please be kind!

What is cruel is the unspoken stuff that people in the know know and others just don’t. So an example the government website suggests certain a levels for law one which I know would massively put off a magic circle law firm employer but you would only know that if you were “in”. Not sure it’s as blunt a tool that going private fixes though. That said lots of firms are really trying to obliterate the old boy network.

I don’t think superiority is explicitly taught in the way some think it is, although that may depend on school/family. You’re not taught that you’re better than others, but what is instilled is self belief. Of course you’re going to go on and be successful/rise to the top in your field, because why wouldn’t you?

as far as manners and charm go - yes, you are expected to be able to conduct yourself socially in accordance with environment. Confidence though, not arrogance. Had a few teachers that could cut you down with a sentence if you displayed the latter.

Whether people go on to be ‘charming’ or not is another matter. Some will only employ it when they deem it beneficial to do so, whilst being dismissive and rude to those they perceive to have no benefit to them. I don’t think that’s a character trait exclusive to private schools, however, and I don’t believe it’s encouraged either. At least it wasn’t in my experience.

Some kids will go to private school but aren’t too worried about academic achievement. They’ll get the grades they need, but won’t grind for the highest distinctions, because they don’t need to. Academic achievement is just a formality. Their path forward is already set, and often results in them leaving university and getting a position in the family business/the business of a ‘close family friend’. I don’t think private schools are responsible for this, however, rather it’s down to the family and the circles they inhabit.

This is a good answer.

Totally agree - mention it here because I think a lot of people believe the main benefits are grades, facilities and the network. But the real value of these things can only be realised with self confidence. It’s like the secret sauce, and by no means exclusive to a private education. I also mention it because I do work with state schools and it is noticeable that the focus in them is primarily academic, there is not the focus on the polished charm, the easy conversation, being relaxed in new situations. Being at ease and thinking of yourself as a leader, is what it boils down to, in the end, and all the experiences that feed into helping you with that

So true. The ability to be likeable and to have good social skills is absolutely incalculable.

Pinata surely easy conversation comes with discussion within class making sure everyone gets a turn?

I'd argue these things are much more important than exam results. If you're shy and lack self confidence when you leave school it's much harder to change these things as an adult then it is to resit exams to get better results!

Also within families?
How they speak?
Friends

My mother taught us social skills at the time as a sulky teen I was 🙄 but my god looking back she was spot on!

It's not NT places per se though (and tbh we only went to the ones with good playgrounds when DC were small!) but simply broadening your child's horizons.

We live less than an hour from London on the train, but a surprising number of DD's year had never been there before when they went on a school trip in Year 10. If your child has never experienced anything outside of the immediate small bubble they live in (and that's true of private school children too), it's much harder to adapt/have the confidence to step into different surroundings and situations.

Mrs t swift

What social skills. Please.

Sheep dog I agree,we live about 30 miles from an amazing city and so many of DC friend's never go!
Not even to the fabulous musuems!

Definitely agree about being in a bubble.

This is what I find the conundrum with everyone going to their local state school.
In DDS ebreyone is within 2 miles of the school..what diversity is there? Friend with DC at private have had Nigerians in with parents posting same with many other nationalities!
DC whose grandparents pay and their own parents are quite poor!

Lots of different circumstances and live in a much wider radius from the school!!

This is what I find the conundrum with everyone going to their local state school.
In DDS ebreyone is within 2 miles of the school..what diversity is there?

Depends on the area, I think. Most at DD's state school live within 2-3 miles of the school but there is massive diversity - lots of different ethnic backgrounds, many different languages spoken and students come from a variety of backgrounds ranging from small council houses to million pound houses. (I'm using clumsy stereotypes here, but you hopefully get the idea).

a lot of it is being able to fit into, and move through, society with ease. Not feeling out of place or uncomfortable in the ‘upper echelons’/‘business class’ of society, because there’s no sense that you don’t belong there. Some of it is also having the same frame of reference in regards to a school (some private schools have more of a sense of their alumni being ‘a tribe’ than others), knowing in-jokes etc.

I don’t think that’s exclusive to private schools, as people will integrate into the community they’re predominantly exposed to. It’s just that the community private school inducts you into can be more advantageous.

But if connections, sense of entitlement, ease at public speaking, ability to get jobs, go to Oxbridge, etc are the real advantage of private schools (and I'd agree that if this is the case, it isn't your bog standard local prep school that does this), then why would you want to perpetuate that inequality? Why would you want to take advantage of that, when so many people cant?

I realise I am an idealist, but there's no way I wanted my dc to be part of that world. I want to challenge that world. Change it. I spent enough time in it and those kids weren't any more clever, knowledgeable or interesting than state school children. If anything, they were less so. They just had the ability to bullshit, and the ability to get somewhere because of where they went to school. It sucks to be honest.

Frame it as ‘why wouldn’t you want to take advantage?’. For some people that’s the life they grew up on, it’s the world their parents inhabited, and the world of their parents before. There’s no question that you’re not going to do the same, because that’s your normal. For others, it’s a case of if you can buy your child/ren opportunities they wouldn’t normally have, then you’ll do that.

on a lesser scale, are you not going to let your children do music/ballet/theatre/horse riding etc, because other children don’t have the opportunity? Would you deny your children access to anything you could provide for them, on that basis?

This doesn't exist in many areas though. Local secondary offers very few sports clubs and timetabled sport is poor. School finishes at 2.40pm when most parents still have 3hrs at work.

Not really - subject-based discussions are quite different to the ability to have a great conversation with anyone. I think a lot of it comes from home, mixing with similar people, and then school provides the “right” cultural references to understand the codes of private school circles. Opening doors is one thing, but the real work is getting on once you’re through the door. That’s where it all comes together.

@MsTSwift which a level should you not take for law? Slightly off the point of the thread I know but I have a child considering it and would like to be able to advis.

I went to a Cambridge open day with ds and the tutor specifically said how he has to sift through and eliminate applications full of references to playing team sports at a high level etc.
This thread seems to be more about social climbing than education.

It’s probably law as when I did a psychology degree they said it wasn’t helpful, but if you go to the open days with your dc and ask the tutors direct questions you’ll get all the answers.

Any essay subjects good for law. Anything that can demonstrate formulating an argument. History, English, theology etc. But you can mix it up. I did English, languages, maths.

I teach in an Independent School and most of the extra-curricular stuff you won’t emulate but here would be my tips:

• go to church, encourage your child to learn about their community and get them actively speaking and mixing with people from the church of many ages. Get them involved, I.e occasional readings or other church activities in front of the church community. This will get the children involved in public speaking and have the confidence to behave in strange old buildings, with faith based rituals. So if they encounter similar in life it won’t be scary.
• military cadets for teenagers will mimic the CCF at private schools and teach kids discipline and resilience.
• private schools often have lessons daily until 4-5pm and parents are very academically committed. Lots of my students will be doing extra work at home during the school holidays to make sure they get the best grades. So make sure your kids don’t have too much down time especially in summer and tutor them yourselves if you are able, on core subjects right from a young age.
• museums and cultural days out
• push your children to look beyond the normal working class career options.
• read classic literature and expose them to broadsheet newspapers to gain an idea what the people who buy these think. You don’t have to agree with them, but an awful lot of the people who send their kids to private school read them.

NRFT

But as someone who was state and privately educated who's had DC's in (high performing) state and private (not UMC/ boarding/public) schools here's my 2p worth:

Different DC's need different schools.
Private schools are just as varied as state schools. There's plenty they get wrong/ could improve.

Dont make assumptions on rumour or based on other schools.

I know different private schools with class sizes of 28 and state with 18.

Things that are pretty much always better at private:

Sport esp competitive. More sport teams. Sport tour trips. Old fashioned sports like hockey and rugby. Saturday practices.

Music. Tuition available in a selection of instruments. (But at high extra cost)

Ethos of academia. Less bullying for swotting. Expectation of uni.

Disruptive pupils get asked to leave. (And go)

But imo it's marginal as to whether it's worth the cost! Ask me in 15 years how my respective DC's are doing!

a good combination for law is English literature, history, and maths. You can swap out maths for economics, and also add a language. You want to hit the keystone subjects.