To think size 18 is plus size and not 'hardly plus size'

[sanddownthatwall]

The poster, with a very large following, is saying a size 18 isn't really plus size by much, and that 'most people (in the UK), are above a Size 16?

Really? I don't know that many people above a size 16. I really don't. I know lots and lots of size 12/14 and thought that was about average? It's usually the first sizes to sell out

www.instagram.com/p/ChiDp-1Mos3/?igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=

Exactly this. The majority of people on this thread are just obnoxiously slating overweight people as if they are lesser members of society, and like they're somehow superior to them. As I said, it's a fat bashing thread and they bloody well know it. And some of them like @Mamato3boysand2dogs seem irrationally angry about something that has fuck all to do with her.

Exactly. Pathetic and nasty bashing of people who don't live on 'massive salads.'

This post was mine and was a joke! It was a glib response to a ridiculous post about a co-workers lunch. I shouldn't have done that, because now it has been used in seriousness to create a view of people who are overweight.

@Mamato3boysand2dogs said this in response

Being fat isn't good, no matter the whole jolly "my kind of woman, lets stuff our faces and do what we want coz we dont care!" Brigade.

Just to repeat for clarity, if you see this is the next thread about obesity then please remember it was a stupid response, said in frustration, not seriousness.

@WhileMyGuitarGentlyWeeps

Why does it have "fuck all" to do with me?

This is a public forum.. for everyone to express their opinion. I have an opinion, which i expressed.

It has as much to do with me as I want it to. The cheek of you. Do one.

Article for those that are interested

www.healthline.com/nutrition/9-reasons-obesity-is-not-a-choice#TOC_TITLE_HDR_6

Also, for anyone who heard that body positivity contributes to obesity.

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/mind-your-body/201806/is-body-positivity-really-contributing-obesity

From the article

"Recent research and media make false claims about body-positivity and "obesity""

The take-home message

This research cannot be used to support the claim that the body-positive movement is contributing to “overweight” or “obesity.” The study did not test this question, and the data cannot be used to answer it. The reviewers at Obesity should have picked up on this, and journalists should have done their homework. Sloppiness in science, peer review, and journalism, is unacceptable, especially when so much awareness has been raised about these issues in recent years. Most people do not have the time or resources to access and read the scientific articles behind the news headlines. It is therefore the job of scholars, reviewers, and journalists, to get the facts straight, and not spread false claims.

Articles about fat shaming

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49714697

www.obesityuk.org.uk/new-news/2019/8/22/shock-fat-shaming-statistic-more-must-be-done-to-understand-the-human-cost-of-obesity

drjamielong.com/what-is-fat-shaming/

Interesting, as I think the most extreme, least balanced, hyperbolic comments on the thread have come from people who are not OW. I'm not talking about the (few) moderate posters who, while believing obesity to be an issue, are discussing it calmly, engaging with other people and responding with respect, but the people who are clearly very personally invested in this. It would be interesting to know why. Whether they're an evangelical 'reformed' fat person, a slightly OW person who wants to feel good by comparison, or just spiteful and unhappy and need to feel superior. Whatever drives posters to call other women names, call them liars if they say they look good, use language like 'stuff your face', say they are disgusting, it's clearly not coming from a balanced or healthy place.

Being fat isn't good, no matter the whole jolly "my kind of woman, lets stuff our faces and do what we want coz we dont care!" Brigade.

Except “my kind of woman” is all of, shock, horror, a size 16!

Being overweight is vilified in a unique way. Lots of people have unhealthy habits in one way or another, a group I'm in on fb constantly talked about drinking wine and it's the response to any kind of bad day... "Oh nothing a bottle of wine won't solve" type comments. This isn't healthy but it doesn't receive the same vitriol.

I think it is all relative. I was a size 22 a few months ago. I have been dieting for several months and am now thrilled I can get back into a size 18 and feel much better about myself. I hope to lose a lot more weight, but it comes off very slowly. I make a note of everything I eat and have given up wine. So be kind everyone. We are all different!

I do think a lot of things are said on mumsnet that the poster wouldn't say in real life. It comes with the territory, I know I have got a bit cheekier in posts than I might otherwise do. People forget they are speaking to someone who might really take your comment to heart, or they maybe want you to take the comment to heart!

I think in every "correction" in attitudes, whether it be racism, sexism, bigotry or sizeism etc, society can overcorrect and become sensitive when seeing it, leading to stronger reactions. Does that make sense? 😀When you are affected by the judgement you become vigilant to seeing what is happening. I have been guilty of using misogynistic, racist or sizeist terms/phrases and it wasn't until it was was battered into me I really saw what I was doing (as an OW woman!), It came from ignorance and not maliciousness.

There are some people who don't get it and they don't want to get it. The overcorrection is not for them (although they do like to kick up a fuss about it!). No, its for the people who have ingrained attitudes that are no longer acceptable, who need it explained in simple terms (i.e. people like me!). I want to know what is acceptable, I want to know what to say to someone who faces different challenges. I want it to be okay for me to learn what those are.

In what way is it unlawful to say being fat damages your health and leads to heart disease stroke and diabetes.

You are implying, by including 'sizeism' amongst racism and sexism that it is. It isn't. And it isn't bigoted to say people who are overweight can die younger, lose limbs through diabetes, become infirm or die through stroke, need medical intervention for blocked arteries, have a higher risk of heart attack.

To claim it's OK to be fat and you are not at risk is to be disingenuous and speaking a lie. It is not OK to be fat. You risk an early death, and to live life with serious health conditions.

The nhs have been saying this for years. It impacts negativity on the health service that everyone uses.

People should stop making it personal. It really isn't.

@Lineala

I was not implying that at all. Respectful conversations, done in the right way, that discuss the causes and impact of obesity absolutely would be beneficial for everyone.

@Lineala What you say is true but saying that is not the same as saying that size 18 is huge, enormous, "ghastly" overweight , morbidly obese etc on everyone.
Some taller women at size 18 are just above the healthy BMI range.
The slightly insulting language and over simple link of dress size and health aren't helpful to the discussion and that's what this thread was originally about. Some of the posts fell into the same category as referring to size 42 feet as flippers.

This is relevant from another thread.

I thought 'plus size' was 16+, so 18 is definitely within that category. It's much more likely to be overweight and, yes, it's dangerous to normalise that sort of situation. I say this as a 5 stone+ overweight person and a size 18/20.

What is the "average size" changes over the years. From time to time, there is a survey carried out, not just on size but on relative proportions. This is used to create standards for dress sizes and paper patterns. After WWII when there was still rationing people were generally thinner than they are today. Then the NHS came in, people were given access to free medical care which resulted in better nutrition and people were able to have treatment for diseases that previously could have been fatal (antibiotics were fairly new). Some of the diseases and vitamin deficiencies that were previous common are hardly recognised because they are now so rare (e.g. tuberculosis, rickets). However, there is now a focus on sedentary working environments which also has the effect of people exercising less and becoming larger. With the "average", by definition, there will be people above and below the average.

So let me get this straight? If you want people to be treated with respect over an issue, you are the one who is called out as being difficult?

I used to think mumsnet had it's fair share of pretty nasty people. I think the downright stupidity of some beggars belief.

It is not the people who want to be treated respectfully who are the problem. If you are calling out the people who want respect, instead of the people who refuse to give it, YOU are shutting down discussion about obesity.

I tried to make that really easy to understand.

There has only been one survey in 2006 about sizing. I used to be a pattern cutter. The previous sizes were based on post WW2

I am now a size 18 having just put on a stone since last May. I definitely feel it is a PLUS size, I feel quite uncomfortable and don;t look good. I;m n a diet but as I am older, it's very slow going. I have had to buy size 18 knickers and jeans but hope to get into 16s again. . . . .fingers crossed

Size 16 is the most common size for a woman in the UK.

I'm a size 16. But I am also middle-aged and overweight. Size 16 is plus size. I'd say I'm about in the middle size-wise for a lot of folks, plenty people the same size or bigger (especially as we get older/ post kids) but also loads of people smaller.

I guess the point the poster is trying to make is, that is a lot of people are size 18 (likely) and there should be more clothing options in that size. Which seems reasonable to me. But that ask doesn't mean size 18 isn't plus size.

I’m currently a size 18. I gained a lot of weight during lockdown and then got pregnant. I look very fat and I’m not particularly happy with my current size. I get what she means, an 18 is the lower end of plus size. I was a very fit, muscular size 14 for years believe it or not . I know MN considers 14 enormous and size 18 positively elephantine as everyone on here is a 7 stone waif straight out of a Jilly Cooper novel. But when you consider clothes size go up to a size 30 it’s not that plus size. And yes I know I need to lose weight. I am trying.

Usual types banging on about how slim they are as if it's a sign of their virtue.
Sigh.

Size 16 is the UK average.