Feel a bit shakey after ds 10s behaviour

[BearGryllsDad]

For reasons I won't go into I had to take the DCs into town with me to do some exercise. Afterward I took them into M and S as I wanted to check out the sale and get the kids a meal in the cafe (kids eat free, or one does anyway). I have never heard so much moaning and playing up as this from ds who is 10 nearly 11. At one point he was crying because he finished his food and leave even though I still had food on my plate and my drink. His little brother was happily entertaining himself, but ds was making a scene to the extent some people were noticing.

Then whilst I had a quick look arousnd the sale items, mum, mum, mum I want to go. Mum, mum, mum. You said one shop. And on and on he went. I told him to give me five minutes, but he couldn't. At one point he lay on the floor feigning something. He started winding up his younger brother calling him a weirdo and sniggering at him. Pointing out pink t shirts and saying they were for him. In the end I told him to stop as he was being infuriating. I didn't loose my temper and kept it together. But I am sitting at home feeling an angry, shakey mess. I've even had a few tears. I often feels like he tries to control things and play up if we have to run errands or so something that is not centered around him. As soon as he gets home he plugs into YouTube and that may be part of the problem. I know m and s is boring but should he be able to tolerate 30 minutes of boredom at his age without making such an embarrassing scene?

Personally I have an 11 year old (just turned 11), I would not leave her alone at home for more than an hour on her own. My now 13 year old, was fine to be left at home for a couple of hours at 12 and now he is able to go out on his own or stay home on his own if he wants to, but he was more mature at 11 than my daughter is.

So why are you posting it's illegal when you know full well that it isn't? 🙄

Millions of 10-11yo's walk home from school alone and come in to an empty house every single day.

It's only advised against insofar as if something goes badly wrong, the parents can potentially be prosecuted but as a general rule it's absolutely fine for 10/11 year olds to be home alone for short periods.

Right, so you would leave an 11 year old at home alone.
so why assert it is illegal to do this?
makes no sense.

Look up how to control your home hub.
You can turn devises on and off.
Tell him after this last episode he will be earning internet time, rather than free use.
Also ask him to pick a book he would like to read if he gets bored when out with you.
Deal with his lack of kindness now, before it really does get too late.
By giving time for good behaviour, rather than punishing bad things it should help.
So 10 mins for sitting nicely, but 30 mins because he sat quietly while you had your meal.

I think you need a stern talk with him about acceptable behaviour both in and out of the house. He’s old enough not to behave like that. Tell him the repercussions if he behaves like that again. Usually restriction of something they like at that age and make sure you implement it if he does break the rules. He needs to know what the boundaries are and that there are consequences if he breaches them.

Read the thread again - NO I would NOT leave an 11 year old at home alone and I did not Makes sense if you read it properly ????
It says that you can be prosecuted if harm comes to the child and they are left alone, there is a safety concern.
Perhaps illegal is poor choice of words but you can see that this guidance suggests strongly that 11 years olds are not mature enough to cope for long periods of time - I.E a whole morning.

So many nit pickers on here. I know many 11 year olds walk home alone from school, but most dont spend 4 hours or more alone in the house at a time.

Personally I have an 11 year old (just turned 11), I would not leave her alone at home for more than an hour on her own

that means you would leave her at home for less than an hour.

if you mean “ I would not leave her at home on her own”, then you do not add the qualifier “for more than an hour” as that changes the meaning, as shown above.

Makes sense if you read it properly ????

no, it does not say what you wanted it to say.

*It says that you can be prosecuted
and it does not say you will be prosecuted. Again, the wording is specific for a very good reason - there is no law stating age children can be left alone.

Perhaps illegal is poor choice of words but you can see that this guidance suggests

it was the wrong word. Illegal means against the law. Yes, the guidance suggests but it does not state. And that is a vital difference. Legal wording has to be precise and unambiguous.

The point here @TrashyPanda as it relates to the OP, is that I would also have taken the child with me that day. Frankly, if I had absolutely no other option but to leave my DC at home alone for some reason (which I never have so far and choose not to do) is that it would never be for longer than an hour max, definitely NOT for a morning or more. As the parent you are still responsible for the child left at home so if DC should come to harm, you could be found to be neglectful in doing so and be legally prosecuted.

@TrashyPanda

it was the wrong word. Illegal means against the law. Yes, the guidance suggests but it does not state. And that is a vital difference. Legal wording has to be precise and unambiguous.

You are interpreting this the way that you want to, I have clarified my position on this, I do know what illegal means, thanks.

I for one think that the guidance is strong enough to make me think twice about leaving my DC at home alone under 12 years old. Others can exploit the 'vital difference' if they want to.

I agree it was poor choice of words - I should have just posted the guidance.
Somehow, this has become an unnecessarily combative thread.

You are interpreting this the way that you want to

no, I am interpreting it correctly.

there is a distinct difference between “can be”, meaning it is possible and “will be”, which leaves no doubt.

Having drafted legislation, I know how important it is to use the correct words which leave no possible room for ambiguity.

Unplug the WiFi and hide the router in a cupboard for a week or so. Lengthen out your attention spans again.

OP - discipline him

He sounds like he is displaying some very bad behaviour and remove his access to Youtube.

Yes there will be tears and tantrums and YESS you will have to stick to it.

I can absolutely tell that you have drafted legislation, lets move on 😀

Thank you

This is not true. I leave my 10 year old for up to 2 hours, and my 8 year old for up to an hour. They both have phones and can phone if needed. I phone them in those time slots. They both like the independence. They tend not to move from where I left them (sitting playing computer games) and barely notice I'm gone!

Yes - this was a badly worded initial post as others already pointed out.

My later post at 9am today is below, i go by this guidance, but I guess it really depends on how comfortable you are with leaving your child on their own and how mature & safe you consider your child to be.

So although technically not illegal the gov guidelines / NSPCC says this :
The law does not say an age when you can leave a child on their
own, but it’s an offence to leave a child alone if it places them at risk.
Use your judgement on how mature your child is before you decide to leave them alone, for example at home or in a car.
The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC) says:
children under 12 are rarely mature enough to be left alone for a long period of time
children under 16 should not be left alone overnight
babies, toddlers and very young children should never be left alone

You can go too far the other way. Mollycoddling and not allowing older children and young teens to gradually learn independence is not great parenting either.

Yes of course, I agree, but we are not talking about teens - we are talking about an 11 year old and that will very much depend on the how mature that 11 year old is. Some will be fine on their own, some will not be. We each know our own child and what we are comfortable with. From my experience I can say that they start to seek independence when they are ready to and it is a gradual and natural journey.
My 11 year old is a whole year younger than most in her year, an August baby I know she is not ready, she does not even want to be in the house alone at this point, my son at the same age however could not have cared less.

There lies your problem - no 10 year old should be "plugged into YouTube"

You reap what you sew as they say