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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Are we being taken for a fool.?

317 replies

Indoctro · 21/08/2022 06:16

Have you watched this video by Neil Oliver

AIBU to start believing he actually has a valid point. I am not normally part of the tin foil hat brigade but I most definitely have been starting to question what's been going on recently

I'd be interested to hear other people views on this subject.

Thanks

OP posts:
FOJN · 21/08/2022 11:45

Businesses and wealthy people have always sought to influence government policy.

Yes by campaigning for legislation which optimises their profits.they have now progressed to influencing policy which shapes society. Globalisation and social media have changed things considerably.

Quveas · 21/08/2022 11:46

We have governments across the world who can't organise a piss-up in a brewery (although apparently some of them are very good at organising piss-ups in pandemics), but they and "whoever else" can manage to maintain an (almost) secret agenda to run the world and fool most of the people. Yeah, right.

EmmaH2022 · 21/08/2022 11:46

Greentree "I think it is too much. I am considering changing careers, and getting rid of the internet altogether. I think I am quite a weak person and it seems like too much. What I have read over the last 15 years online has brought me far more worry and concern than the challenges my life actually produced. I am exhausted by it. I can understand people going off grid, I wish I was one of them."

i sympathise. I moved to "business news only" ages ago and there's still a bunch of shit in my head I don't need to know, because people talk about it.

I used to hope to retire to a situation where I could ignore all of it, but the current economic direction makes it look less likely.

I used to use social media, back when it was fun, to escape the real, horrendously overpopulated, world. Now I can't use social media and having ignored the real world as much as I can for a while now, I find it revolts me even more.

i can only offer sympathy and empathy. Not worth much, I know.

FlowerArranger · 21/08/2022 11:46

If you want to worry about something, worry about what Truss, Braverman and the rest of the Tories will do to the poor and vulnerable over the next couple of years.

Sums it up neatly

djdkdkddkek · 21/08/2022 11:47

you know many people would be like “omg what a great segment” if it were said by someone they liked, and on a channel they seemed worthy of their time

EmmaH2022 · 21/08/2022 11:47

ClaudineClare · 21/08/2022 11:45

I would also suggest, "you will own nothing and you will be happy" is quite attention grabbing so people sat up and took notice and now they'd quite like to know what that means for us proles in practice

Well, us proles owning nothing would mean the end of capitalism. I can't see many Western governments buying into that as a way forward.

No it doesn't.

it means a smaller number of people own more. Who do you think owns all the stuff that you don't - the rented hairdryer etc?

CherryGenoa · 21/08/2022 11:48

FlowerArranger · 21/08/2022 11:46

If you want to worry about something, worry about what Truss, Braverman and the rest of the Tories will do to the poor and vulnerable over the next couple of years.

Sums it up neatly

Yes, focus on what is tangible for now. And don’t suppose they have the best interests of the majority at heart.

djdkdkddkek · 21/08/2022 11:48

FlowerArranger · 21/08/2022 11:46

If you want to worry about something, worry about what Truss, Braverman and the rest of the Tories will do to the poor and vulnerable over the next couple of years.

Sums it up neatly

Did you worry about the labour councillors to the mass rapes of children in care in Rotherham?
tories MPs can be shit but let’s no pretend that labour give a shit about the vulnerable

BiggerthanIusedtobe · 21/08/2022 11:48

You are being very reasonable to listen to other points of view. I wish more people would start joining the dots.

Bluebells12 · 21/08/2022 11:48

Asurvivor · 21/08/2022 11:02

I think the problem is how polarised our thinking has become in the west. Why does everyone need to be fervently for or against something, no middle ground. The left is forever looking for the purest causes and to take the moral high ground - no room for discussion or seeing the other’s point of view. The right seems to be looking for conspiracy theories in everything - again no room for discussion or a difference of opinions. Was it always like this? I thought that the centre was where most people were, where did the possibility of reasoned debate weighing up the pros and cons go to? What happened to finding common ground?

An example is covid vaccines - I am fully vaccinated, accept the risk of any side effects is worth the upside of protecting the most vulnerable etc.

Last year I met with a male colleague mid 40s who was really healthy, ran marathons etc. He suffered an extreme reaction to the vaccine (think it was called myocarditis), was to do with his heart. He had to be hospitalised and it has had a lasting impact as he can no longer run as before and he needs to be monitored regularly etc. I was pretty shocked when he told me that this side effect was more common than had been reported, I was not even aware it had ever been reported on.

I think it is detrimental to the roll out and acceptance of vaccines if side effects are hushed up and the view is pushed that the vaccine is only good. And having geniuine comcerns about the vaccination is only bad. It just gives ammunition to anti-vaxxers that there is a conspiracy going on if the full facts are not presented for people to make up their own minds. And we should be allowed to make up our own minds and not forced to abide by the left wing morally-right groupthink.

We used to be able to have this kind of centre-ground discussion - there are plenty of other examples I could give, so what has happened? I really don’t understand.

This is such a good question: “what has happened?” When I was at school in the 90s, we were taught that every topic has extreme points of view but a compromise point of view is always best. Every essay concluded by discussing what the best compromise would be.

What has changed between then and now is the internet. A generation has grown up ‘debating’ topics in echo chambers where everyone agrees with them and if anyone suggests a different point of view, that person is deleted from the group and never heard from again. People who spend a lot of time on Facebook/Twitter really struggle with the idea that in real life you can’t just ‘delete and block’ people you disagree with. Look at the hysteria around JK Rowling: those who disagree with her are incapable of debating with her, they just shriek ‘educate yourself’ and try to find a way to delete/block.

The internet has been the worst thing to ever happen to rational debate and its ramifications are still playing out.

(Great for online shopping though 😬)

derxa · 21/08/2022 11:49

Lily073 · 21/08/2022 11:41

It was definitely reported on the BBC.

Show quote history

Where and when? I watch the BBC news every single day.

Greenberg2 · 21/08/2022 11:49

queenMab99 · 21/08/2022 08:48

I don't think it is a conspiracy, but greed, selfishness and hunger for power and influence, have risen to the top, so the results will be the same. The pandemic has provided opportunities for a morally barren government to enrich themselves and their friends. The government we have, has been voted in by a population who are voting for their own induvidual enrichment, without regard for the good of the community, or a more widespread well being.

This is true but exacerbated by social media and the way it can be exploited for PR purposes. So nowadays people who rise to the top like Trump and Johnson can convince people that they're men of the people and working in their interests. Whereas really it's completely obvious that they're both elitist and greedy men who've completely benefited from nepotism and private education (Eton and Wharton FFS - and yes I know BJ got a scholarship but he previously went to a private prep school, which enabled him to get in).

It's not a shadowy conspiracy in the sense that we know the people involved and they're not exactly hiding it. If you own all of the newspapers or are best friends with those that do, if you manipulate social media at the same time (stand up Dominic Cummings etc), if you have lots of money to fund political parties, then you can manipulate democracy. It's also quite easy to get your friends in the press not to publish too many mean things about you. And then you get your politician mates to vote in rules that make it less easy to investigate your wrongdoing. All out in the open.

djdkdkddkek · 21/08/2022 11:50

Sorry I think my auto correct and my groggy Sunday mind messed up my sentence there! I meant were you worried about the vulnerable in that scenario!

FOJN · 21/08/2022 11:50

Well, us proles owning nothing would mean the end of capitalism. I can't see many Western governments buying into that as a way forward.

You really haven't been paying attention have you? We will own nothing but we will have to pay for the use of things we need but do not own. Who will own them? Sounds like capitalism in steroids to me. They're really not aiming for shared community ownership to reduce consumption.

ClaudineClare · 21/08/2022 11:51

EmmaH2022 · 21/08/2022 11:47

No it doesn't.

it means a smaller number of people own more. Who do you think owns all the stuff that you don't - the rented hairdryer etc?

Show quote history

Don't be silly. No one is going to be renting hairdryers.

LondonWolf · 21/08/2022 11:52

Greentree6455 · 21/08/2022 11:40

I read the transcript, apart from the anti-vax stuff (Which I don't know enough about yet). I don't really disagree with anything. I wish there was more in it though, because it doesn't feel solid enough. I do not think that I am a conspiracy theorist but the last few years of life have talk me a bit about the nature of modern living that does scare me. Fear is everywhere. It is constant and it is rampant, and the problem is, when people are worried about a headline, when they are threatened by something coming, they act differently. They are both easier to manipulate and they are easier to control (imo)

I do not believe it is one big single conspiracy but I believe when it it becomes "Us and them", that separation makes it easier to do things to "them". You see it throughout history don't you? The difference in treatment through central places like churches influenced a woman's place in society? It doesn't have to something that is discussed and planned by everyone with power to change attitudes. I could watch some programmes and think tattoos equal violence, but when I look at people in my life and realise it means nothing like that. But what if I didn't have those people in my life? then I would continue to believe people with tattoos are more prone to violence. The more I am influenced by what I see in the news/social media/modern culture and the less I am influenced by my peers the bigger the risk in my opinion. And that is what the pandemic achieved wasn't it?

I think it is too much. I am considering changing careers, and getting rid of the internet altogether. I think I am quite a weak person and it seems like too much. What I have read over the last 15 years online has brought me far more worry and concern than the challenges my life actually produced. I am exhausted by it. I can understand people going off grid, I wish I was one of them.

I think this is a very insightful post.

1blossomtree · 21/08/2022 11:55

djdkdkddkek · 21/08/2022 11:47

you know many people would be like “omg what a great segment” if it were said by someone they liked, and on a channel they seemed worthy of their time

I've read the full transcript and considered the claims made irrespective who was saying it and where it was hosted.

It's just more of the same rambling bullshit.

EmmaH2022 · 21/08/2022 11:55

ClaudineClare · 21/08/2022 11:51

Don't be silly. No one is going to be renting hairdryers.

Show quote history

Well let's hope not but the WEF release those articles so it's hardly surprising people talk about it.

for those who didn't see it at the time - to be fair, I now realise it was in Forbes, but when you only read news for work, you get confused

www.forbes.com/sites/worldeconomicforum/2016/11/10/shopping-i-cant-really-remember-what-that-is-or-how-differently-well-live-in-2030/?sh=733917f21735

on the plus side, I gather MIT have an article this month about smart cities failing? Now I'm a freelancer, I don't have access to any of these mags if they're behind a paywall. But if it's true - best news in ages!

ClaudineClare · 21/08/2022 11:57

FOJN · 21/08/2022 11:50

Well, us proles owning nothing would mean the end of capitalism. I can't see many Western governments buying into that as a way forward.

You really haven't been paying attention have you? We will own nothing but we will have to pay for the use of things we need but do not own. Who will own them? Sounds like capitalism in steroids to me. They're really not aiming for shared community ownership to reduce consumption.

This is it, this is what I do not understand.

How and why on earth do you think all the countries in the world would shift to some kind of giant state capitalism? Do you think companies like Apple, Microsoft etc. would happily convert their empires into some sort of global Radio Rentals?

WhenPushComesToShove · 21/08/2022 11:58

Considering information from all platforms and points of view is always interesting, rather than coming from a fixed viewpoint. Thank you for this

MargaretThursday · 21/08/2022 11:58

Bring on teaching critical thinking in schools please...

EmmaH2022 · 21/08/2022 12:00

ClaudineClare · 21/08/2022 11:57

This is it, this is what I do not understand.

How and why on earth do you think all the countries in the world would shift to some kind of giant state capitalism? Do you think companies like Apple, Microsoft etc. would happily convert their empires into some sort of global Radio Rentals?

Show quote history

Wait a minute

are you saying you CAN'T see the appeal to business of them owning more licences, more hardware, more resources, and effectively selling a subscription rather than a product?

and many companies already operate that way to a large extent.

i'm slightly at a loss to explain the increased profitability if you can't see it automatically?

EmmaH2022 · 21/08/2022 12:01

MargaretThursday · 21/08/2022 11:58

Bring on teaching critical thinking in schools please...

And business, finance and legal education.

CJsGoldfish · 21/08/2022 12:01

Anyone who disagrees with you is a conspiracy nut? Sure thing
Nah, only those partial to tin foil headwear, YouTube and RWNJ sites 🤷‍♀️

SurferRona · 21/08/2022 12:02

OP, no ‘we’ aren’t, but you certainly are.