Are we being taken for a fool.?

[Indoctro]

Have you watched this video by Neil Oliver

AIBU to start believing he actually has a valid point. I am not normally part of the tin foil hat brigade but I most definitely have been starting to question what's been going on recently

I'd be interested to hear other people views on this subject.

Thanks

Not that I have a clue what we the minions would be able to do to change the path of the future.

Vote. Vote whenever there’s an election. Vote for the party which aligns with your views most closely. None will align exactly, but choose the one that’s closest.

Campaign for proportional representation, so that all views are able to be represented in Parliament.

Campaign for what you believe in.

Stand for Parliament, local council, parish council - whatever level you’re able to, so that you can shape policy and influence how public money is spent.

Democracy is a tool at our disposal and one we should engage with in order to maintain it. If we do nothing we can’t complain about the outcomes.

He brings in the raid on Trump, as if that’s unfair because others didn’t get raided.. so I guess he’s a Trump fan…

Think you'll find that most of them are. They are the 'orange man bad' crowd.
They're all the same 'person' with the same catch phrases and lack of critical thinking. They will often mask a lack of education (and therefore a lack of ability to seek out legitimate sources oh, and Burden of Proof anyone?) with big words and phrases they've heard from fellow CTs. Pro Trump, Anti vax, Climate change deniers etc.

They know way more than than the actual experts. They are 'truthseekers' who feel special because they are the only ones who 'see the light'

Apparently. 😂

I could read Neil Oliver's books again and again (and often do). But when he starts wanging on about anything other than neolithic burial sites or stone circles I want to bash my head off a wall.

He's like the Morrissey of ancient history.

What I don’t ‘get’ - about the core of people who have these kind of beliefs - is that if they are are encouraging us to ‘question everything’ and run against the herd - then why don’t they question the validity of the beliefs that they are choosing to follow (which are often unscientific, unverified, extremist, from a dubious unregulated source).

If you want reliable info then surely you go to the consensus thought on a subject by the most highly academic minds, who debate, peer research and accept criticism/debate from all sides?

It’s utter hypocrisy and although this core of people people claim to uphold ‘free speech’ - they are actually more than happy to ‘cancel’ those who don’t agree, rather than having a balanced discussion.

I think we’ve been through tough times and it’s natural for humans to question, particularly when we’ve had a lot of intervention due to Covid. I see it as psychological reactance to bring ‘told’ what to do. Some people just can’t deal with it.

Also think it’s important to compare society now to 50/100/200 years ago - and see, despite peaks and troughs - there is a gradual uphill trend towards better healthcare, education, freedom, recognition of people’s rights etc, etc. I agree we are not in a great place, things need to improve - but overall you probably have more freedom/ opportunities available to you than 100 years ago.

@Indoctro

If you want reliable info then surely you go to the consensus thought on a subject by the most highly academic minds, who debate, peer research and accept criticism/debate from all sides? It’s utter hypocrisy and although this core of people people claim to uphold ‘free speech’ - they are actually more than happy to ‘cancel’ those who don’t agree, rather than having a balanced discussion

Bingo @ShedThirtySeven

The trouble is you can always find someone who claims to be an expert and goes against the consensus view - typically someone deep into CTs will ignore the 99.99% of experts, and go to the 0.01%. See Robert Malone and coronavirus vaccines etc.

They also always claim there are scientists/experts who agree with them, but they are being silenced, censored and threatened by the government/big pharma/bill gates (convenient because it means they don't need to give any names).

Yes! And the latest - this weird war on plants & seeds and their products like oils.

Apparently it's vegetables that are destroying our health and the planet, and we need to move to a meat based diet.

Baffling.

I loathe and detest Monbiot

I am all for alternatives - alternative comedy, music, art etc etc. However - alternatives when it comes to science/medicine? I think they should exist and people should have the choice - but I don’t think government policy should be based on what the 0.001% believe, whether that’s horoscopes, crystals, alternative remedies etc, etc. Interestingly, the ardent anti-vaxxer I know believes in tarot, horoscopes etc. It is highly unlikely that people will vote for an alternative thinker in terms of science/medicine. Or that will be beneficial to the health of the nation - to substitute a vaccine for - say - rubbing a crystal.

Why?

Apparently he tried to arrest John Bolton, so he has some redeeming qualities.

I can understand why some people dislike Monbiot, his individual articles can be very Marmite.

I used to dislike him, and then I read more of his writing and realised that taken together he writes a lot of sensible things. There are still some things that I disagree with him on, but on the whole he's ok I particularly like that he's very open about how difficult it can be to understand what is the right thing to do, and how he acknowledges and explains how some of his personal choices are inconsistent.

He's right to be angry about the hypocrisy but he's completely wrong about it being a farce - global warming is real, food shortages are real, covid vaccination does work (to reduce the severity of disease). Our political classes are not infallible either, they let political agendas interfere with what is truly right for society.

I'm angry about celeb types lecturing people about how flights are bad before hopping on a private jet "for security reasons" I'm not giving up my one or two flights a year until they cut down to one or two commercial flights a year, and taking a transatlantic crossing by sea (ship or motor yacht is no better, wind powered yacht well as long as it's wood ). But global warming is a real danger now and we need to collectively act not just us mere mortals

By the way I liked his geology and historical programmes, he's certainly not stupid but he's pointing at the wrong fingers

Brilliant - couldn't have put it better myself.

Think you'll find that most of them are. They are the 'orange man bad' crowd.
They're all the same 'person' with the same catch phrases and lack of critical thinking. They will often mask a lack of education (and therefore a lack of ability to seek out legitimate sources oh, and Burden of Proof anyone?) with big words and phrases they've heard from fellow CTs. Pro Trump, Anti vax, Climate change deniers etc.

Sadly in this case, we're talking about a very highly educated man with an MA in a subject that should value analysis of evidence.

@Allergictoironing

That still doesn’t sway me. An MA in archeology v’s a professor of virology. Who’s more likely to know more about Covid?

Neil Oliver has some kind of extreme agenda. There is a lack of balance in his views. Intelligent people are quite capable of getting stuck down a rabbit hole, and becoming radicalised.

Science should serve society - not a political agenda. And that’s the problem with Neil Oliver. He has some extreme political views, so his view on science is twisted to serve his political agenda.

I think you may have mistaken my point; possibly I wasn't clear (long hard day at work).

I was more commenting that though CJsGoldfish is suggesting that the majority of the people spouting the extreme agenda tend to mask a lack of education (and therefore a lack of ability to seek out legitimate sources oh, and Burden of Proof anyone?) with big words and phrases they've heard from fellow CTs. Pro Trump, Anti vax, Climate change deniers etc. , in this particular case Neil Oliver doesn't have that excuse.

Totally agree that a professor of Virology is the expert in this field & trumps am MA in an unrelated subject. I find it very sad however that someone who IS educated to a high level in a subject that values analysis of data should be so influenced and deluded - hence me prefixing my comment "sadly".