18yo got his GF pregnant.

[SnickersTwix]

I’ve changed names for obvious reasons. Background for context:,

My DB is considerably younger than me. Despite this we are close and he looks to me for advice and emotional support.

My DB is 18 and about to get his A level results. Real high flier offer to Oxbridge if he gets the grades on Thursday. He and his girlfriend (been together 6 months) found out she is pregnant. Not planned at all- she was on the pill. She is also 18 and was due to attend university in a different city. I think she is 2 months pregnant and has ruled out an abortion.

Prior to this news DB had confided in me that he was considering ending the relationship. He didn’t see how there relationship would survive long distance (100 miles between their expected universities).

Since finding out about the pregnancy my brother has said he will give up his university place and get a job to provide for girlfriend and baby and work towards a deposit for a flat. Part of me thinks that’s lovely and the other part of me knows he’s very naive and has no idea what the reality of his plans would mean. I’m also aware he was considering finishing with her before all this.His salary without a degree will also be low.

Our mother has told him he has to go to university. It was his GFs choice to keep the baby and he can’t throw away his future. Meeting between GF’s mum and our mum went terribly. Her mum expected my mum and her mum to bring up the baby to allow her DD and my DB to go to uni etc. My mum having none of it.

He feels trapped between his own naive ideas and that of our mothers.

So AIBU to encourage him to not go to university or should he listen to our mother?

Our home town university isn’t great and no where near as good as his Cambridge offer. GF wants to be at home near her Mother so moving her to Cambridge with him is not an option. School think Cambridge won’t defer the offer and tbh can’t really see how that would help.

Just like, if you buy and drive a really dodgy car, you might be able to bring a prosecution against the person who told you lies about the car (it’s fraud), but you can’t blame them for your own naïveté in not taking the precaution of checking it.

Now in the case of a woman believing a man is wearing a condom, the law is on her side because the man actively removes the barrier without her seeing.

So let’s imagine you buy a car, check it over, all looks fine, and out of your sight the vendor does something to the car that then, out of your sight, makes it unsafe. You then hurt someone. In that case, no you are not responsible, because you took sensible precautions and they stepped in and did something you couldn’t have prevented.

That’s closer to being the right analogy here. The young man didn’t do anything to protect himself. He isn’t protected from the results of his naïveté. Sadly.

Anyone deceiving their sexual partner of condom use isn't just violating them with sperm and the risk of pregnancy, they're also putting the other person's health at risk of STDs...Which pill deception doesn't. These are not mutually exchangeable situations.

Well I didn't quite say that, but if he wants to tell people that, sure. She will look poorly in it. To deceive someone into becoming a parent is a really shitty thing to do. If you don't think it is or that people will think negative of her, I think that speaks to your character tbh.

There’s a lot of effort here going into the idea that ‘promising’ and ‘intelligent’ young men should have basically any level of excuses made for dumping their kids on society and looking after number one

Conversely no one is saying the young woman should immediately drop her course. PP have quite rightly suggested ways for her to continue to Uni, using various support mechanisms. Is a young woman who cannot afford to support her baby ‘dumping her kid on society’?

The divide in this thread is not about "those who believe men should take care of their responsibilities."

It's about those who think long-term and understand the long-term, cumulative value of a valuable, high-earning career and a well-known university name, vs those who think short-term and think a bit of cash-in-hand now is the most important thing and that every university is the same.

Hate to sound like a snob, but it's a class and education issue in part, and also partly an age issue.

Although the expansion of higher education has made this much less common, you do still hear from 40 and 50-somethings who have no history of university education in their family, dropping hints that their 18yo should "go and get a job" rather than wasting time with training and education. The trouble is that we are no longer living in a world where 18yos can easily walk into a decent-paying blue-collar trade that pays out right away, or "work their way up" from the shop-floor into management without a degree.

Her mother has offered to help so they can both go through Uni.
His mum has refused to help.

@Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious

Of course they might think poorly of her. I didn’t say otherwise.

I’m not sure why you don’t understand my question.

What is confusing is you seem to think it’s morally justified that she parents alone , because (after all) she was the one who “chose” what to do with her own body (she can’t “chose” for him). However, when it comes to finances you seem to think the responsibility is shared. Why the difference? Why does she not get to “chose for him” in one case (parenting responsibility), but she does get to “chose for him” in the other? (Financial responsibility)

Your comment about the state is neither here or there. Men are responsible to pay for their children, whether women can afford to raise their children alone or not.
further the role of the state is the same with parenting- either the woman parents alone, or if she can’t manage, the child becomes the responsibility of the state.
Similarly , financially a woman could be made responsible alone , and if she couldn’t manage, the financial responsibility would become the state - like in any other number of circumstances.

‘It's about those who think long-term and understand the long-term, cumulative value of a valuable, high-earning career and a well-known university name, vs those who think short-term and think a bit of cash-in-hand now is the most important thing and that every university is the same.’

Oh please. The value of things is different to the individuals involved, isn’t it? Tell a baby ‘I’ll feed you in six years with my long-term cash-flow’. Then you can be everyone’s absent dad.

Tell DB to go to Uni.

I totally agree with you. I am horrified by all the people on this thread think this baby is the responsibility of the gf because she chose to have it (would have an abortion / didn’t take the morning after pill). Meanwhile it is absolutely right that OP’s son proritises himself because she doesn’t “get to chose” for him.

‘Conversely no one is saying the young woman should immediately drop her course. PP have quite rightly suggested ways for her to continue to Uni, using various support mechanisms. Is a young woman who cannot afford to support her baby ‘dumping her kid on society’?’

It depends what she does. What ways have been suggested other than abortion? And how are they equitable between her responsibility and his? All I’ve seen is, ‘Her mum will do the work.’

I wouidn't put it past her to phone the college in order to paint him in a very poor light

How would she do that exactly ? By describing his behaviour? Dumped
me when he found out I was pregnant. Cut off contact. Refused to come to scans. Said he was off to pursue uni, and he would see his baby in the holidays, meanwhile baby would be the responsibility of me and my mum ?

@Tandora

Of course he’s going to tell his new Cambridge friends what he did. After all, nobody cares. (Nonsense.)

and I’m not sure why you don’t understand my answer 🤷🏻‍♀️

bodily autonomy =/ financial autonomy, as I am sure you’re quite aware.

People who create children should be the ones responsible for paying them if it all possible, rather than the financial burden falling onto the state.

The fact that the state already covers a proportion of costs/all costs when there is no alternative, is not a justification for adding to the burden if the parent is in a position to pay their share.

“Wouldn’t even give in when I threatened to accuse him of rape!”

‘Various support mechanisms’ - I love the language here. The only support mechanism she shouldn’t expect any support from: its dad.

@whumpthereitis

Seriously, if my new ‘friend’ at uni told me this story, I’d say, “It’s terrible that she suggested it was rape.” I’d mean it. And I’d wonder why he was here rather than with his helpless baby.

Nope, the support mechanisms she shouldn’t expect any support from are those unwilling to give it. It’s not her mother’s responsibility either. Her mother is offering it, however.

Some people will think badly of him, some won’t. Given how little impact supposed moral outrage has on the large number of men who already walk away from raising their children, I’m sure he’ll be fine, and won’t find himself impeded.

‘Nope, the support mechanisms she shouldn’t expect any support from are those unwilling to give it.’

No, he’s responsible for his child whether he likes it or not. He can neglect that responsibility, or not.

Exactly the same as I’m responsible for getting up and feeding the two I have each day, clothing them, washing them, etc. The alternative is neglecting that responsibility. Willingness is nothing to do with it.

That’s fine that you’d think that, obviously. I would not wonder why he was there, and honestly wouldn’t think any more of it.

‘Given how little impact supposed moral outrage has on the large number of men who already walk away from raising their children, I’m sure he’ll be fine, and won’t find himself impeded.’

“Loads of people neglect their children. Let’s defend that to the death.”

@whumpthereitis

Evidently you think it’s fine for people to abandon their children. In real life, I’ve met nobody who would admit to that. I’d bet my house on it the story will change between now and anyone finding out: “she doesn’t let me see the baby”, “she’s weaponising the child against me”, “I’ll feed and house my child at some distant future point (“do everything I can”).

My question is why don’t you apply the same logic to anything to do with fathering a child that doesn’t involve finances. Why is it his financial responsibility, but when it comes to anything else , it’s on her because she “chose to be a single parent”. Why the double think. (Also how exactly did she “chose to be a single mum”? Is it because he dumped her when he found out that she was pregnant but she still didn’t have an abortion?).