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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

18yo got his GF pregnant.

1000 replies

SnickersTwix · 15/08/2022 21:08

I’ve changed names for obvious reasons. Background for context:,

My DB is considerably younger than me. Despite this we are close and he looks to me for advice and emotional support.

My DB is 18 and about to get his A level results. Real high flier offer to Oxbridge if he gets the grades on Thursday. He and his girlfriend (been together 6 months) found out she is pregnant. Not planned at all- she was on the pill. She is also 18 and was due to attend university in a different city. I think she is 2 months pregnant and has ruled out an abortion.

Prior to this news DB had confided in me that he was considering ending the relationship. He didn’t see how there relationship would survive long distance (100 miles between their expected universities).

Since finding out about the pregnancy my brother has said he will give up his university place and get a job to provide for girlfriend and baby and work towards a deposit for a flat. Part of me thinks that’s lovely and the other part of me knows he’s very naive and has no idea what the reality of his plans would mean. I’m also aware he was considering finishing with her before all this.His salary without a degree will also be low.

Our mother has told him he has to go to university. It was his GFs choice to keep the baby and he can’t throw away his future. Meeting between GF’s mum and our mum went terribly. Her mum expected my mum and her mum to bring up the baby to allow her DD and my DB to go to uni etc. My mum having none of it.

He feels trapped between his own naive ideas and that of our mothers.

So AIBU to encourage him to not go to university or should he listen to our mother?

Our home town university isn’t great and no where near as good as his Cambridge offer. GF wants to be at home near her Mother so moving her to Cambridge with him is not an option. School think Cambridge won’t defer the offer and tbh can’t really see how that would help.

OP posts:
whumpthereitis · 20/08/2022 23:39

Tandora · 20/08/2022 23:35

Why is he responsible for maintenance then? Should men ever be made to pay maintenance ? after all women can just chose to get abortions - if they don’t that’s On them right ?

Because adoption, and removal of parental rights and financial responsibility, has to be agreed upon by both parents. If one disagrees then they are responsible for raising the child, whilst the other is responsible for making financial contribution.

If this financial contribution isn’t paid then the state has to step in and pay it. Given that the state didn’t create the child, it’s on the parent.

Charcy · 20/08/2022 23:42

Sounds like the girl potentially saw a break up coming and didn't want it. Unfortunately young girls do sometimes make daft decisions without thoroughly thinking through the consequences. I'd suggest you advise your brother to wear a condom in the future, whether the girl claims to be taking the pill or not. He ultimately has no say in whether or not she keeps the baby, her body, her choice. He does get a say in his own future however, and providing he steps up and provides in the best possible way, everything else is up to him. I feel for both parties here, if not the guy more so as unlike the woman, he doesn't have a say in something that it sounds like neither of them are financially, emotionally or practically capable of doing. 😏

Tandora · 20/08/2022 23:46

whumpthereitis · 20/08/2022 23:39

Because adoption, and removal of parental rights and financial responsibility, has to be agreed upon by both parents. If one disagrees then they are responsible for raising the child, whilst the other is responsible for making financial contribution.

If this financial contribution isn’t paid then the state has to step in and pay it. Given that the state didn’t create the child, it’s on the parent.

You are just quoting how the law works- I obviously don’t disagree that is how it works.

Crazycrazylady · 20/08/2022 23:52

According to some posters on this thread/
Any man who has fathered a child with someone who a) travels away for work b) is in army c) doesn't live close to child's mother d) works shift or long hours or e)in general any job which prevents them doing exactly 50% of childcare should immediately quit that job and take any job that meets requirements of the child's Mother but of course said job must still pay enough to support thechild fully.

If not these men are to be treated as morally deficient by society.

I think some of these posters live in a totally different world to the rest of us.

whumpthereitis · 20/08/2022 23:53

Tandora · 20/08/2022 23:46

You are just quoting how the law works- I obviously don’t disagree that is how it works.

I’m saying that I agree with it, and rationale behind it.

Tandora · 21/08/2022 00:03

whumpthereitis · 20/08/2022 23:53

I’m saying that I agree with it, and rationale behind it.

Ok so that’s what confuses me- why should men be required in law to pay maintenance? After all women can just choose to get abortions. If they chose not to, why should men have to pay? They can make their choice and live with the financial consequences..

whumpthereitis · 21/08/2022 00:14

Tandora · 21/08/2022 00:03

Ok so that’s what confuses me- why should men be required in law to pay maintenance? After all women can just choose to get abortions. If they chose not to, why should men have to pay? They can make their choice and live with the financial consequences..

What is confusing? A woman has a choice as to what she does with her own body. If she’s not willing to parent alone then yes, she can of course choose abortion.

If she decides to have the baby then it needs to be financially supported by both parents. They are responsible for that, over the state.

justasking111 · 21/08/2022 00:26

Well to start with the girl can look for a job and work for me next 24 weeks that money will be very useful to her and her mother.

Mummyoflittledragon · 21/08/2022 00:31

whumpthereitis · 21/08/2022 00:14

What is confusing? A woman has a choice as to what she does with her own body. If she’s not willing to parent alone then yes, she can of course choose abortion.

If she decides to have the baby then it needs to be financially supported by both parents. They are responsible for that, over the state.

Agreed, The man does have bodily autonomy. The woman likewise has bodily autonomy. The moment a man choses to put his sperm into a woman’s body, he is no longer ‘in control’ of his sperm as it is no longer inside his body. At this point, there is the potential this may result in the creation of a child. As the woman has bodily autonomy, it is for her to decide what to do from this point. The state isn’t and shouldn’t be responsible for either parties decision and rightly a parent is chased by the CMS for maintenance payments.

MulberryMoon · 21/08/2022 00:48

Tandora · 21/08/2022 00:03

Ok so that’s what confuses me- why should men be required in law to pay maintenance? After all women can just choose to get abortions. If they chose not to, why should men have to pay? They can make their choice and live with the financial consequences..

Because not everyone sees abortion as an easy contraception method like you are making it out to be, after the future baby has already been conceived. I say that as someone who is very pro choice, but not pro forced abortion. A much easier contraception method would be a condom. Boys need to be taught not to rely on the girl to take responsibility but to take responsibility themselves for stopping the sperm being able to get to the egg. Even if the girl says she's taking care of it, best to double up with a condom too. That's what I'd teach my sons if I had boys. If they choose not to they may conceive a child and will be the bio dad, like it or not

sevenwonder · 21/08/2022 00:49

If he does not attend the scan with her on Monday, I wouidn't put it past her to phone the college in order to paint him in a very poor light.

It also wouldn't surprise me at all if she thinks she's entitled to mother and baby accommodation to be provided by the college because she is pregnant 'with' one if their students. She may phone Cambridge to request this.

The other possibility is, and I hesitate to say this, that she may find out at the scan that something may have gone wrong with the pregnancy. Or it could be twins. They don't recommend these non-medical scans before the official 12 week scan.

What I don't understand is - if she really is 12 weeks pregnant right now, why did she tell him she was 6 weeks only a few days ago? What was the actual point of that? And also, if she is as far along as she now claims, why has she waited until 12 weeks to tell him?

Something doesn't add up here..

weetabixes · 21/08/2022 01:02

As @Crazycrazylady said - the thread has been hijacked by some very specific viewpoints.

Those arguing the brother should give up his career are doing so on the basis that the foetus has rights to financial input and attention from the OP's brother from conception. And that he should find the best job he can locally that will support the future child from pretty much now.

That he should provide 50% of the childcare - though that would presumably not kick in from birth, since the ex-GF would presumably be breastfeeding. And presumably she will not be planning to be working or studying (based on what the OP says) for the future child's first year - so there is no specific need for childcare. Even going by the traddiest viewpoints, it's not clear why he should give up his first year at college at least. The foetus isn't born so costs don't kick in yet. And small babies don't themselves cost a lot.

Even going by their rules, he should certainly go to university for the first year at least, and then see what turns up - he could possibly transfer to second year more locally, or take a leave of absence, or whatever (though of course I don't really think that - I think the best thing is for him to get the best degree he can).

In which case, the moral demand express on this site by a minority is that he should give up his place and work and save in his home town seems to be just something punitive.

Putting it this way: say that in 10/11 years' time the OP's brother is established as a GP - he will be on about £70k. If he decides to leave Medicine early and go into finance or law instead, he could be on much more money - especially with a Cambridge degree. Even assuming his home town has plenty of good-quality work for bright people who didn't go to college - for example, in the tech industry - will he be on the same salary trajectory?

In which case - imagine you are the ex-GF in a few years' time, with a new partner, and a small child. Would you rather that the OP's brother was in a position to provide 15% of a good salary reasonably soon, or 15% of an average salary, since the option of Happy Families was just never on the table? It is absolutely the right thing for him to anticipate their change of heart and communicate that now. Separately: the future child would benefit from a higher salary, and it's absolutely in their best interests that one parent pushes their training and career forward, with a view to the future wellbeing of their children.

Children have the right to be wanted by both parents. It's very hard for children who gradually realise their parents have made extraordinarily difficult sacrifices because they were a surprise baby. It was more common in my generation to have had parents who felt obliged to do the right thing. It's not good to be aware of that sadness, often bitterness. Children do not ask to be born, so it's best for them if they are actively planned and wanted by both parents, when they have the time and resources to ensure they have a good upbringing. And adults do have responsibilities to their own fulfilment, as well as the upbringing of their children. It would be harder for the OP's brother to begin medical school at 37/37 once the eventual child has themselves become independent.

In this case, the OP's brother just does not have the time and resources to provide more than goodwill and the promise of more active involvement later on. This is not the economy or society that we live in. And that is often how parenting works within 'intact' households, where at some points one parent just cannot be very available. Why should expectations of him be so much higher than of many, many other fathers in intact households, who are studying or contributing very little in the short term?? Would people feel just as strongly about him dropping out if he were already a year, two years, three years into the degree??

achillestoes · 21/08/2022 06:52

Apologies that I didn’t reply to some posters. I went to sleep.

This is a very distressing thread, but at least the men have all the support they will ever need to abandon the kids they make, under the guise of ‘taking responsibility’ (when they are clearly doing the precise opposite).

Who knew the world would have changed so little in such a long time?

Anyway: lads, wear a condom.

achillestoes · 21/08/2022 07:17

And in reply to a specific question, obviously if it’s true that she deliberately misled him about being on the pill, that’s very wrong. However it doesn’t absolve him of his responsibility for his own fertility and its consequences. Everyone is on here talking about how bright he is - not bright enough to understand the pill sometimes fails? Not bright enough to understand some people forget to take it? Not bright enough to understand that some women might say they took it when they didn’t? No, he just wanted to have sex.

That’s fine, but any medical student worth their salt will tell you any sex between two fertile people carries some risk of pregnancy. Now she’s pregnant, and he’s likely to be a father whether he likes it or not.

DashboardConfessional · 21/08/2022 07:24

achillestoes · 21/08/2022 07:17

And in reply to a specific question, obviously if it’s true that she deliberately misled him about being on the pill, that’s very wrong. However it doesn’t absolve him of his responsibility for his own fertility and its consequences. Everyone is on here talking about how bright he is - not bright enough to understand the pill sometimes fails? Not bright enough to understand some people forget to take it? Not bright enough to understand that some women might say they took it when they didn’t? No, he just wanted to have sex.

That’s fine, but any medical student worth their salt will tell you any sex between two fertile people carries some risk of pregnancy. Now she’s pregnant, and he’s likely to be a father whether he likes it or not.

Again, would you say that a woman who got pregnant because the man slipped off the condom should have been on the pill and it's her own fault she is now pregnant?

achillestoes · 21/08/2022 07:26

No. I would say that was rape (which it is - sex by deception). But she would still be inevitably responsible for the pregnancy because it would be in her body. What’s the other option?

achillestoes · 21/08/2022 07:30

But bear in mind I haven’t said this pregnancy is his fault. I’ve said the child, when it arrives, is his responsibility, because he took the risk that his girlfriend (someone I assume he’d known for a few months and wasn’t committed to) might get pregnant.

DashboardConfessional · 21/08/2022 07:30

achillestoes · 21/08/2022 07:26

No. I would say that was rape (which it is - sex by deception). But she would still be inevitably responsible for the pregnancy because it would be in her body. What’s the other option?

No. No, no, no. I'm not talking about responsibility for the foetus. I'm talking about the conception and situation they are in, which you say is equal here despite her having lied. Pretty sure you wouldn't post -

"Everyone is on here talking about how bright she is - not bright enough to understand that some men might slip off the condom because they hate the sensation? No, she just wanted to have sex."

DashboardConfessional · 21/08/2022 07:34

Bottom line. If I have sex with someone when I think the chance of pregnancy is 1% when it is in fact 20% I would make different choices if I knew. Same as I'd not get in a car with 2 flat tyres and no MOT.

achillestoes · 21/08/2022 07:36

@DashboardConfessional

I wouldn’t, because that’s a crime. Saying you’re on the pill and not taking it is a breach of trust but it genuinely isn’t the crime of rape, which is a violation of the body. So please stop equating the two, it’s horrible.

It is wrong to say you are on the pill when you’re not. If that happened, it’s wrong and yes, she is at fault. It still doesn’t mean he’s not responsible for his child when it’s born, because people are responsible for their own fertility (which is clearly also the case in the case of the removal of a condom, as pregnant women are responsible for the choice about what to do about the pregnancy, and automatically for the child, if it is born).

achillestoes · 21/08/2022 07:38

‘Same as I'd not get in a car with 2 flat tyres and no MOT.’

Right, but you wouldn’t buy a car without seeing it either, would you? If someone said, ‘It’s a good car, 5,000 miles on the clock, you don’t even need a spare tyre’, you’d take their word for it and drive it? No, you wouldn’t. And if the car turned out to be in such poor condition that it was dangerous to others, you would still be responsible for the results.

achillestoes · 21/08/2022 07:40

Also, when a man removes barrier contraception before penetration, he is removing contraception that they are both using, in the moment of the sex act. When a woman is on the pill, she is using contraception and he is not.

DashboardConfessional · 21/08/2022 07:47

Haha. Now you're really tying yourself in knots. Bravo.

So are we also equating the woman trusting the man to use the condom properly with driving the car unseen, as being a bad idea? Cause if so, that's fine, point proven.

"Take the pill, lasses" to paraphrase your previous post.

DashboardConfessional · 21/08/2022 07:48

I'm hiding the thread now, btw. Sincerely hope all works out for them.

achillestoes · 21/08/2022 07:51

@DashboardConfessional

It’s your analogy. I think it’s crass but it works. If a woman gets pregnant as a result of a rape, unfortunately she is still responsible for the results of the pregnancy. If a woman gets pregnant as a result of what she believed was consensual sex with a condom, that wasn’t, she is still responsible for the results of the pregnancy. That’s not different in the case of a man believing a woman is on the pill.

However, in the first case, the woman can also bring a prosecution against the man for the criminal act of violating her body without the barrier she thought they were both using.

In the second case (the man) he can’t, because he knows he isn’t protected. He isn’t using a barrier.

Either way, you want there to be a mechanism for a man not being responsible for the outcome of a pregnancy when he chose not to use contraception, and it doesn’t work like that, which is why the law will require him to pay maintenance even when he does use contraception. The moment of deciding to have sex is the moment of agreement to that contract.

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