To be sick of seeing "cool girl" or "cool wife" used as an insult

[11GrumpsaGrumping]

I have been on a few threads recently where some posters have been really quite cruel to other posters, including me, for having different boundaries and preferences than they do.

The terms "cool girl" or "cool wife" are slung at them, with the implication made (sometimes directly) that said "cool" person doesn't really do/feel/enjoy the way the say they do, and are just trying to be cool.

Everyone has different boundaries, experiences, cultural influences, relationships, ages, backgrounds, etc- why is it not okay for one person to find for example strippers okay within their marriage and others not to, without the former being accused of being part of the "cool wives brigade".

Is it really that hard for people to understand and accept that we all have different boundaries and lines in the sand?

It really makes me angry and I find it just another way in which woman choose to tear other women down, when what we need to do is support one another.

But when I see it in practice, it's normally just someone stating preferences.

This is confirmation bias in your part, OP.

I could easily say I’ve seen it normally used to make women feel bad for not enjoying anal, rough sex etc

*used to describe women who make other women feel bad for not enjoying anal etc

@waterlego, I totally understand what you are saying and absolutely agree! You explained it to me in a rationale and dare I say ‘kind’ manner 😬. However, sometimes on Mumsnet posters are so passionate about a topic that they neglect the time to do that. I think we should be aware of the impact of our words etc.

That being said you are completely right and a quick look at Twitter is an education!

Totally agree about the "Be Kind" having elements of manipulation. It can be used as a foil to encourage you to ignore your true feelings. It's subtle, it's nuanced and it can be really unsettling and make you question your own absolutely reasonable feelings. And all under the guise of improving society.

It shouldn't be like this. But it is.

Yes@Fluffymule I have heard many strip clubs are also linked to money laundering from vice - so prostitution, drugs, trafficking. Nothing fun about that industry at all.

Ah, @Sallyh87, that’s a nice post, thank you 😀 Yes, Twitter certainly is an education but can be horribly depressing if one spends too much time on there 😫

In the context of Cool Wives, men having female friends is a red herring and nothing to do with being cool or permissive.

It becomes "Cool" if the woman says "I'm fine with my husband/partner having female friends. There's one he's particularly friendly to who insists on rubbing his back and tickling his neck when we're sitting there having a drink. I'm fine with that, bless he enjoys an ego boost and who am I to rain on his parade". Bragging about how tolerant you are with something that puts you in second place, to prioritise your man's needs at the expense of your own is the epitome of "Coolness".

I mostly seen it used when women come into a thread and tell a woman whose own boundaries have been violated that her boundaries are abnormal. It’s just unnecessary.

If a woman has a problem with strippers, or drinking, or endless golf, or whistling, or wearing the color green then those are her boundaries. She gets to have them and she gets to negotiate them with her partner. It’s not up to outsiders to decide if those boundaries are acceptable.

we should be supporting women in standing up for themselves. Instead we have posters coming on and telling them that they are controlling or no fun.

But when has anyone ever posted anything like that?

On most of those threads someone just has to say I'm fine with my husband having female friends and they're a cool wife.

I think mumsnet needs a nuance corner and those using reductionist terms to provoke hostile discourse can fuck right off.
Tolerant of all but the intolerant.

But you’re assuming it’s about trust or insecurity. I trust my DH (he has plenty of female friends who he spends time with without me, we sometimes holiday separately, both have a lot of independence, we have separate bank accounts and don’t use each other’s phones yada yada)

I wouldn’t be happy with him going to a strip club because then he’s supporting the sex industry which has a detrimental effect on women

Yes, yes, yes. You're describing my situation as well. Going to a strip club etc is cheating on a personal level and damaging on a societal level as well.

This.

Someone not wanting their partner to watch porn /get a lapdance may well be jealous or insecure yes. However they may simply realise what lies behind it all and want no part of it, and could not remain in a relationship with someone who refuses to see it for what it is.

I have no issue with my DH being friends with women, doing things on his own etc. I would have a problem with him treating women as objects for him to use at will for his own pleasure, with no thought of what circumstances have forced that woman into it.

It takes a special kind of stupid to believe the old 'student working their way through uni, making an empowered choice' nonsense.

The cool wife tends to be a woman with low standards though....

If you're cool with the sex industry, I don't think you've thought enough about it. Or that would be the charitable conclusion, anyway.

Case in point

The cool wife tends to be a woman with low standards though....

Is that lower than a Hand Maiden but not as high as a Pearl Clutcher?

And is a Karen a Cool Girl, Pearl Clutcher?

Or is a a Hand Maiden a Vanilla, Cool Girl?

Reductive shit.

oops sorry I forgot I gave an example, which is the much vilified MN sin of the Strawman.

Of course nobody actually posted those specific words - surely you understand the point I was trying to make and that just saying "my DP has female friends" does not a Cool Wife make.

@daisychain01 but that's exactly what happens

People just need to say they're ok with a husband having female friends and many on here that use the term, will come on and say they're a cool wife.

I've never once seen a post on here (and been kicking around for years) where a poster has said anything like your example and posters tell her they'd be fine with it.

If a woman has a problem with strippers, or drinking, or endless golf, or whistling, or wearing the color green then those are her boundaries. She gets to have them and she gets to negotiate them with her partner. It’s not up to outsiders to decide if those boundaries are acceptable

This is fine but why is she posting then? If you post on a public forum about an issue such as Strippers, Porn, Anal sex which you know is hotly debated do you seriously expect 100% agreement with your position? Because if you do you’re incredibly naive. If I want to respond “ I would be ok with that ( insert behaviour)” I’m entitled to express that. If you’re all so adamant about your high bars and your strong boundaries why are you posting?

I wouldn't say I'm 'cool with it' but I also recognise that it's not going anywhere and people who think it can be illegalised into non-existence are fantasists. Like the doomed war on drugs, I'd instead opt for better regulation.

I don't know if that makes me a 'cool girl' or just a realist.

I agree. I don't think it is something one should be cool with.

People have different perspectives on the best way to handle this harmful, exploitative and unethical industry. That is a different debate and I can respect the harm reduction arguments and the abolitionist arguments alike, even if I have my own strong personal views here. Harm reduction recognises that it is inherently harmful.

By 'cool with it', I am talking in the context of this thread, people who don't seem to realise (again, the charitable interpretation) that it is harmful, exploitative and unethical and apparently think the only thing people should consider before becoming a consumer in the sex industry is whether their partners have said they mind.

Although I dislike insulting terms I think that what you like or dislike in your personal life is different from men behaving in ways that affect society, such as paying for sex, watching porn, paying for things such as only fans etc. So for instance, a partner having friends of the opposite sex, or giving regular updates when out for the evening, that is up to you as a couple, to agree where you draw the line, however a partner paying for sex, or watching porn affects society as a whole, and I feel entitled to disagree with it, and would not be happy with a man who did those things.

I wouldn't say I'm 'cool with it' but I also recognise that it's not going anywhere and people who think it can be illegalised into non-existence are fantasists. Like the doomed war on drugs, I'd instead opt for better regulation.

Yes but there's a big difference between recognising that a bad thing may be impossible to wipe out and saying you're fine about being married to soneone who supports or does that bad thing.

I don't think murder, child abuse, heroin use or kicking puppies willever be wiped out, but I can't really imagine going on a thread and saying "Meh - I'm not that bothered he did it. It was only a one-off. Most men probably do it anyway, and hus mates led him astray." I realise I'm being flippant with the comparisons, but 'It can't be eradicated from society' is a serioysly shit reason for personally tolerating something.

This is fine but why is she posting then? If you post on a public forum about an issue such as Strippers, Porn, Anal sex which you know is hotly debated do you seriously expect 100% agreement with your position? Because if you do you’re incredibly naive. If I want to respond “ I would be ok with that ( insert behaviour)” I’m entitled to express that. If you’re all so adamant about your high bars and your strong boundaries why are you posting?

Say the discussion is about anal sex

This could be introduced in a lot ways

OP - I am thinking of trying anal sex, what do I need to know?

OP - I am getting pressured to have anal sex, but I just feel uncomfortable with the idea.

OP - My DP says everybody tries anal sex at least once, but I'm worried something would go wrong, what are the risks?

OP - I love anal sex and I am tired of feeling shame because of it

The problem is there ARE posters who will go into every single one of the above threads and say "I am okay with anal sex, I enjoy it" and equally there are posters who would go into all of the above threads and say "no women enjoys anal sex, it's horrendous!". It seems that when certain topics are introduced any rational or nuanced thinking goes out the window. The priority becomes the opportunity for the poster to share their views, no matter the relevance, And all of the threads end up the same, with posters focused on arguing about anal sex, and not the particular angle the OP brought to the discussion. It's bloody frustrating. Anyway. I'm not doing a good job describing this at all!