To be sick of seeing "cool girl" or "cool wife" used as an insult

[11GrumpsaGrumping]

I have been on a few threads recently where some posters have been really quite cruel to other posters, including me, for having different boundaries and preferences than they do.

The terms "cool girl" or "cool wife" are slung at them, with the implication made (sometimes directly) that said "cool" person doesn't really do/feel/enjoy the way the say they do, and are just trying to be cool.

Everyone has different boundaries, experiences, cultural influences, relationships, ages, backgrounds, etc- why is it not okay for one person to find for example strippers okay within their marriage and others not to, without the former being accused of being part of the "cool wives brigade".

Is it really that hard for people to understand and accept that we all have different boundaries and lines in the sand?

It really makes me angry and I find it just another way in which woman choose to tear other women down, when what we need to do is support one another.

So much this.
I say this as someone that's been accused of "cool girl" because I enjoy masculine hobbies and anal
🙄

I think I struggle a bit with how posters don’t recognise the impact that their words (so easily typed) might have on the person reading it. Yes, by all means disagree, it is a discussion forum, but words do have a real impact. There is a person on the other side.

Would they say such things in person?

What are people getting out of insulting someone anonymously?

Example of the Feminist use of 'wimmin' taken from Feminist Chat,

'Today, I really needed someone by my side. I was challenging in person some pretty dubious characters in respect of speaking truth in a difficult situation (think what you like). Sent a call out for "wimmin" to stand with me what did I find? Resounding echoes of silence.......'.

And actually, it goes beyond DARVO because it claims not that those with power are being abused by the accusation that they abuse their power, but that those with less power are being abused by having that fact pointed out.

Why are you being such a dick?

I genuinely do not care if my husband looks at porn. Or sees a stripper. I trust him. I’ve never looked at his phone. I’m not insecure in the slightest. I do not pander to him. We disagree over lots of things and I am not afraid to stand up to him. I was happy single, and he knows it. I don’t control him and he doesn’t control me. Cheating is a different thing. But looking at porn in my opinion, is no where near that boundary.

The irony is that a lot of the posters who sling 'cool wife' as an insult on these threads seem to spend a lot more time thinking about men than I do.

The trouble is that, after millennia of this shit, feminists know that 'thinking about individuals' prevents women from seeing ourselves as a class, and from seeing the massive system under which we all are all crushed. In fact, that this is precisely the intention - what do you think 'Be Kind' is all about? It means 'STFU'.

We are socialised to care about the feelings of individuals so that we don't unite. Other forces like consumerist individualism and queer theory do the same thing - frame society as consisting of individuals, each with their own 'journey', their own struggle, their own truth, in order to distract from the fact that society is actually a system in which one large group exploits and oppresses another large group along the axes of race, class, and sex.

It really is that simple.

But you’re assuming it’s about trust or insecurity. I trust my DH (he has plenty of female friends who he spends time with without me, we sometimes holiday separately, both have a lot of independence, we have separate bank accounts and don’t use each other’s phones yada yada).

I wouldn’t be happy with him going to a strip club because then he’s supporting the sex industry which has a detrimental effect on women.

I try not to call people names or trample over other people’s boundaries but I also inwardly eye roll and tbh feel really frustrated at times when some women’s views and standards have an impact on me and my life. I realise that’s my problem and my issue to deal with but I don’t have to like it.

A prime example is partners or wives who don’t have a problem with / don’t dare speak up about / pretend they don’t care when their husband pays a woman to dance naked inches from their face for the purpose of sexually arousing them. I believe that has a direct impact on my life because I work with lots of men and i believe it helps inform how much they value and respect women in the workplace and in society in general.

Yes the responsibility lies with those men and i know I can’t hold their wives and girlfriends responsible for their misogyny. However, I can’t help but feel every bit as frustrated with those women who take the ‘men will be boys’ line as you seem to feel frustrated that some other women choose not to support you in being cool with it.

At the end of the day the only ones winning here are the men.

Actually, I will add my husband has only once been in a strip club in the 16 years we’ve been together. It was my brother’s stag do and he felt so uncomfortable about looking at other women that he stood outside and waited for them to come out. I don’t describe myself as a cool wife or whatever, I’ve just got no time or inclination to get wound up about such things.

Maybe I’m not like other women? In fact I know I’m not. I’m ok with that. If you’re not…🖕

In fact “you’re insecure” seems to be the new “you’re jealous”. Not everything is about a woman being insecure, some things are objectively detrimental to society and to women in particular and women who object to that shouldn’t be dismissed as “insecure”.

@DixonD

What does that even mean?

I know I'm not like other women?

Are all other women except you the same?

Just to add

Framing it as 'infidelity' rather than 'abusive and repulsive exploitation of disempowered women' is just as anti-feminist/pro-patriarchy as cool wife-ness. It's a distraction with an agenda.

She’s special. We’re just insecure and don’t trust our husbands.

A prime example is partners or wives who don’t have a problem with / don’t dare speak up about / pretend they don’t care when their husband pays a woman to dance naked inches from their face for the purpose of sexually arousing them. I believe that has a direct impact on my life because I work with lots of men and i believe it helps inform how much they value and respect women in the workplace and in society in general.

Exactly @PixiePirate . These women are aiding and abetting and it impacts all women (including themselves and their daughters). It is our business.

Insecure, jealous, controlling (and vanilla) But sure, its 'cool wives' thats the terrible insult.

In fact “you’re insecure” seems to be the new “you’re jealous”. Not everything is about a woman being insecure, some things are objectively detrimental to society and to women in particular and women who object to that shouldn’t be dismissed as “insecure”.

add to that list

cool girl
pearl clutcher
vanilla
hand maiden
Karen

Oh I forgot it's not ok to say Karen

my bad @WinterDeWinter I thought DARVO was a specialist MN one. will google next time👍🏻

You make some very interesting points and I do take them onboard. I personally would class myself as a feminist and would happily tell anyone that and try to support women in work etc.

However, saying that ‘be kind’ is the same as STFU, I don’t agree with. Having empathy for people and understanding how they feel should not be seen as a weakness. Being kind should not become a negative thing. Men, women and children should always strive to be kind. If we don’t life just becomes a miserable event with everyone upsetting and being horrible to each other .

@Sallyh87

Be kind and support women absolutely as ways to silence women.

@Sallyh87 Yes, on the surface ‘be kind’ is of course a nice thing to strive for. The vast majority of people want to be kind to others (and want others to be kind to them) but this phrase is increasingly being used to try and get women to shut up. You only have to spend a few hours on Twitter to see it.

However, saying that ‘be kind’ is the same as STFU, I don’t agree with. Having empathy for people and understanding how they feel should not be seen as a weakness. Being kind should not become a negative thing.

Being kind of your own volition because you're a nice person is a very good thing. Being instructed to 'Be kind' as a way of minimising or deflecting your concerns is not. Neither is being told to 'Be kind' because you belong to a particular group which has traditionally been expected to prioritise kindness to others at the expense of their own rights and needs.

in and of itself #BeKind doesn't mean STFU in the same way that "cool girl" isn't just a girl who likes beer and football.

It is the way they are used, and corrupted, by the very people who are making women's lives difficult. Don't like, say, men in women's changing rooms? #BeKind and let people do things that make you feel uncomfortable. Where #BeKind = STFU

So Cool Girl/Wife wouldn't be one whose husband felt uncomfortable at a strip club and waited outside - it would be one whose husband went to the strip club, shoved 5 dollar bills in the stripper's G-string and paid for a lapdance and then said "i don't know why anyone would have a problem with that, you're all insecure prudes, I'm cool with it [inference: and all other women should too]".

Both cases are about encouraging/telling women to stomp on their own boundaries.

As for "wimmin". Well i grew up in the 70s/80s and it was a thing then to draw attention to the fact that no, women aren't a subset of men - they are a class in their own right. So there was a lot of (IMO misguided) tabloid talk about "personhole covers" and "chairperson" when actually the suggestions had been "Actually, not all people who use 'manhole' covers are men, so let's be inclusive in our language and acknowledge that" (but the suggestion wasn't usually "person hole" covers it was things like "street drain covers" or whatever) And mostly "chairman" was replaced with "Chair" rather than "chairperson" or whatever. But the frothing by the tabloids back then was damaging to the greater picture and a lot of women, Spare Rib i think? was prominent, in saying "righty ho, chaps, we'll be wimmin just so you notice the difference"

In the end i think it was only Private Eye who ran with it.

Fair enough, I didn’t understand the context and to be honest I am slightly annoyed that something as simple as ‘be kind’ is being hijacked. Anyway, everyday is a school day and have learned something!

@Sallyh87, yes it is very annoying. And it’s crafty because it sound so reasonable. Of course we all want to be seen as being kind. So if we object to a bald middle aged man playing on a young women’s soccer team, there are plenty of misogynists queuing up to tell us to just ‘be kind’. And then we’re the ones being made to look unreasonable. It’s so manipulative!

I think it’s interesting that some think the ‘cool wife’ label is only used as an insult to deride someone who simply trusts their husband, they are not bothered by him using porn or visiting strip clubs because it sits within their agreed and comfortable boundaries.

There’s an argument that some of the pushback they get may come from them ignoring the implications of what exactly they are not bothered about.

For example, that the majority of porn sites feature trafficked women, rape, torture, pedophilia, revenge content. Strips clubs are not universally staffed by enthusiastic students empowered to explore their sexuality whilst paying off their student loan as often portrayed, but many are trafficked women or being worked by a pimp who takes her nightly earnings as soon as she leaves.

So, people are entitled to their boundaries and choices in their relationships - and there is no need to use names to deny them of that - however people's opinions of them might be constructed because of wider context.

Cool that your husband likes that Porn Hub clip, not so cool the women he’s wanking over is actually 15 and doing it because otherwise she’ll get beaten or worse.