To be sick of seeing "cool girl" or "cool wife" used as an insult

[11GrumpsaGrumping]

I have been on a few threads recently where some posters have been really quite cruel to other posters, including me, for having different boundaries and preferences than they do.

The terms "cool girl" or "cool wife" are slung at them, with the implication made (sometimes directly) that said "cool" person doesn't really do/feel/enjoy the way the say they do, and are just trying to be cool.

Everyone has different boundaries, experiences, cultural influences, relationships, ages, backgrounds, etc- why is it not okay for one person to find for example strippers okay within their marriage and others not to, without the former being accused of being part of the "cool wives brigade".

Is it really that hard for people to understand and accept that we all have different boundaries and lines in the sand?

It really makes me angry and I find it just another way in which woman choose to tear other women down, when what we need to do is support one another.

This forum is called…..AIBU. Why post if you’re not prepared to hear another person’s opinion that you are AIBU?

This. Okay, you're fine with your husband blowing money on hookers, going to lap dances, having "special friends" or wtf ever. Doesn't make you more enlightened and there's no reason to evangelise your lack of boundaries on other people's threads.

In that example, the OP wouldn't be asking for an opinion, they're asking for advice on the situation.

Eg. if you post saying "I hate fish, but my host is only supplying fish-based meals, what should I do" - it's pointless to post "Oh I love fish".

It's adding bugger all. Which is a choice, but it's not a great one.

Agree with this. YANBU OP

This is DARVO - Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. As I mentioned above, it co-opts the language of 'progressiveness' (developed by feminists and the broad left) to claim that pointing out oppression is actually an act of oppression - that the victim is the offender.

It's insane, makes no sense, and utterly transparent once you've had it pointed out. I'd feel excruciated if I had to sink that low in a debate. But women are heavily programmed not to make others feel bad, especially men, so it's often quite effective. So panicked at breaking the Be Kind rule that their critical thinking is temporarily disabled.

You've got to be a shameless, Trump-level MRA (or an actual narcissist - see the Relationships board for many examples) to deploy it though, so I guess that limits the field a little.

See also the trans extremist narrative, lots of crossover tactically.

Gah, you have to click 'show quote history' to see the quote I was talking about - it's this from @sunshineandstrawberryjam

sunshineandstrawberryjam · Yesterday 11:23

It's a deeply misogynistic term that is basically used to deny women agency or the ability to make their own decisions or analysis of a situation. At this point I tend to just switch off if someone uses it and refuse to pay them any attention from that point onwards as it's such a twatty term to use.

Ohhh yawn.

zzzzzz right backatcha. Let me guess: You're not like other girls.

You KNOW the harmful shit the Cool Wives put up with and think that everyone else is an uptight prude for not putting up with it themselves.
So you carry on. You do you. Whatever.
But we see you.

I have said it probably a dozen times now but it bears repeating.

a) i don't generally use the term, but sometimes it is the apt description. It saves writing out whole paragraphs

2. people use it wrongly? yes they do. Either correct them or move on and ignore. (see also Gaslighting and Narcissist)

iii) What people will accept in their own lives can wildly differ from what other people accept. Let's put it on a continuum with Cool Girls at the "permits anything" and the Controlling Harridan at the "jealous of everything allows nothing" at the other.
Most people will be somewhere along that line - and at different times they may move closer to one end or the other.

I'm happy to call someone who obsessively checks their partner's phone, has a hissy fit if he even goes for lunch with women from work etc a control freak. It's the internet YMMV

Ha ha I am like a lot of other women, many, many, many women do not have a problem with their partners watching porn.

Many many women watch porn including some, but not all of my girlfriends, I am not one of them, I don't like it. I don't enjoy watching it at all. I also have friends who would hit the roof at the thought of their DH watching porn. I respect and "see" all of them. I "see" you too.

Guess that makes me a "cool, not cool girl". I'll take that.

You do you too Boo.

This is the thing though

Literally noone cares if you are OK with your husband watching porn. It's totally irrelevant to the world, or any question apart things like from "AIBU to think women should be fine with their husbands watching porn". In which case knock yourself out with your "porn's fine".

But what happens (like on the thread in question) is it will be a thread like "AIBU to think porn damages relationships" and someone will pop up to go "I don't care, my husband watches, all men watch it, in fact sometimes i watch it too. It definitely doesn't harms relationships and people who say it does are old/prudes/out of touch/normal MN porn haters.

Then if anyone posts to say "well, thats not really relevant, does porn damage relationships in general" they get told it's shaming and policing other womens behaviour.

That's cool girl behaviour. Putting other women down or insulting them for not being fully on board with activities that damage women and benefit men.

It definitely doesn't harms relationships and people who say it does are old/prudes/out of touch/normal MN porn haters

I don't agree with anyone saying that. I respect both sides of the coin but I have noticed time and time again on here IF you are ok with your husband watching porn you care called a "cool girl" which is meant in a derogatory manner. Also I have seen people pull women down who are NOT ok with their partners watching porn and that is wrong too.

So 2 things, would you describe me as a "cool girl" because I don't take issue with my husband watching porn but would fully respect you not being ok with yours doing it?
Secondly. What about the huge amount of women who watch porn to look at men, surely they are benefitting themselves?

So 2 things, would you describe me as a "cool girl" because I don't take issue with my husband watching porn but would fully respect you not being ok with yours doing it?

No I wouldn't describe you as a cool girl. Its not a phrase I use. However I did not like the "many many many" part of your post as it implies women who don't like their husbands looking at porn are somehow strange. You generally seem quite annoyed that some women wouldn't be ok with their husbands watching porn, I don't know why.

Secondly. What about the huge amount of women who watch porn to look at men, surely they are benefitting themselves?
2 things: 1) I don't care what people I don't know do, if they choose to watch porn that's their business but 2) men in porn are far less likely to be coerced and then degraded or treated violently than women, so I don't think its comparable. And far fewer women than men watch porn on a regular basis.

In my opinion most porn aimed at men is misogynistic, degrading/humiliating to rhe actresses, and you could be watching a filmed rape. It would put me off a man if they were ok with that (and yes it seems most are).

Also personally having my marriage break down due to porn, I'd be wary of a man who happily admitted they watched it now. Before I was a bit more laissez-faire.

I'd suggest you watch "Hot girls wanted" and see what you think after that.

I watched a Louis Theroux programme years ago where he spent time in the industry. As I remember he did bring a bit of wry humour to it. Still, the overwhelming impression was of a seriously disturbed culture preying on people who had a number of psychological problems. The simulated rape porn was just horrific.

No I wouldn't describe you as a cool girl. Its not a phrase I use. However I did not like the "many many many" part of your post as it implies women who don't like their husbands looking at porn are somehow strange. You generally seem quite annoyed that some women wouldn't be ok with their husbands watching porn, I don't know why

Many, many do and many, many don't but the implication on this thread and others is that if you are ok with you are strange and downtrodden. That is not the case. I reckon I have more girlfriends who WOULD have a problem with it than wouldn't to be fair. They don't annoy me in the slightest. Some of them would find their husbands coming home drunk and being sick funny (he was dying all day after being sick all night and was singing Abba ha ha) whereas I would find that absolutely horrific. I would find that so hard to deal with and they would laugh it off. I guess you could call me uptight for that and a lot of people probably would but it is how I feel and my husband watching porn is ok with me. Depends on your boundaries. Coming home drunk is a HUGE no no for me.

In my opinion most porn aimed at men is misogynistic, degrading/humiliating to rhe actresses, and you could be watching a filmed rape. It would put me off a man if they were ok with that (and yes it seems most are)

Agreed there is a lot of this going on but again there is a lot of stuff just normal folk put up that they make themselves on pornhub so depends on what kind of porn you go looking for. There is some pretty vanilla stuff out there too. Not all porn is bad or degrading or rape but I do agree there is a huge call for that kind of darker stuff and that is indeed horrifically worrying. I also agree that is shows younger kids, both boys and girls a completely skewed idea of sex so there is that aswell. But I am only talking for myself and my husband in the regard that I don't mind him watching porn. he doesn't watch it all the time or have a porn addiction, nor does he have a stomach for rape or pain porn either. He is just a regular guy who watches the odd bit of regular porn once in a while. I have not got a huge sex drive so there's that too.

I am so sorry to hear about your marriage breakdown due to porn. That must have been hard.

I will actually watch that and report back.

2) people use it wrongly? yes they do. Either correct them or move on and ignore. (see also Gaslighting and Narcissist)

With respect 'correct them or move on' is the understatement of the decade. 😁
This is MN!

Thanks for the nice reply 😘

I would not have much of a problem with my DP coming home drunk. Also didn't really have a problem with exH watching porn until 1) I got more feminist and 2) he spent loads of family savings on webcams

Webcams are cheating and porn is not imo but in his opinion it was the same.

It has coloured my view a bit.

Been there done that. It was a lot of fun at the time, and I did get plenty of positives out a relationship which thrived on experimentation and the pushing of boundaries. But certain boundaries had to be there for this to work, and to be clear. And sex work, of which lap dancing is a variety, is a hard line in the sand for me.

Now in a monogamous relationship. Female friends, socialising with female friends, fine. Husband sleeping in bed with one of said female friends, a situation which arose on a separate thread recently? Deal breaker.

Not everyone with such boundaries is a pearl-clutching prude. And different standards apply in different relationships and at different stages in life. Some people might well be comfortable with more sexual transgressions than others, but isn't it interesting how often this tends exclusively to facilitate the pleasure of men? I'd be interested to know what's in it for them.

Simply putting up with shit behaviour doesn't sound particularly 'cool' to me. And the handmaiden epithet is very apt when it comes to women constantly being thrown under the bus to appease every demand men make on them which benefits men to women's constant detriment. That whole noise can get to fuck. And I have no qualms in saying that women who entertain, much less facilitate, this BS are idiots of the highest order.

Ahhhh now webcams are a whole other ballgame! I am totally with you on that. Once you interact with another person in any intimate way you are cheating.

Glad you kicked him to the kerb! Fair play.

I think my low sex drive has coloured my view a bit if I am truly honest.

I fully agree that there's nothing 'cool' about certain things. I've seen women being called a CG because they do not object to their partner's Xbox though. I got called one because I love football. No, it's a silly, unimaginative insult and often says more about the person using it than the person it is directed at.

I think there is another aspect of the "cool girl" attitude that I've not fully worked out but I will try, it's probably been described a dozen times better than I ever could but I will try anyway. It's just something that I thought about/would have been concerned about when I was younger but not now. So, a woman is often called frigid/boring/straight if she didn't allow any sort of pornography in the relationship and if she got angry or frustrated about it she would also have been called jealous/mad/crazy. Furthermore there would have been an idea that the porn was a replacement for adequate sexual relations "If you gave me what I want I wouldn't have to look elsewhere". Just setting the background. Anyway, so what I think happened over time if someone said "my girlfriend gets jealous if I watch porn", then this would immediately conjure a "view" of the girlfriend, this view would represent her as plain, homely, unadventurous, etc... For two reasons 1. If she wasn't plain he wouldn't have to look elsewhere and 2. If she was adventurous she would let him watch porn. This was a representation of woman by men, and for men. Women have noticed this representation and it became more important to AVOID that representation that it was to consider her own views. so, on a forum to say "I'm fine with porn/I'm fine with lap dances" it projects a view that she is the opposite of plain/homely/unadventurous. But well the thing is she was never that to begin with, she's fighting against a misogynistic imprint and image that was created BY men and FOR men.

I've no doubt I probably have it all wrong, or it's been discussed somewhere on the thread that I missed, but it's a factor I think about. I am just damn sick of women fighting against women.

It's not a bad thing for women to point out to other women that being 'cool' about porn use by their partner is, more often than not, detrimental to the integrity of her relationship (she deserves better) and detrimental to women in wider society (exploitation, objectification, subjugation etc). Tolerating a bloke's misogynistic put downs is something that woman has been conditioned to.

to my mind it's far better to risk you being damn sick of women fighting against women than women falling silent and not giving the unvarnished truth that women are free to take on board or ignore. I'm sure a lot of women on here have been enlightened about the reality of porn in society and have moved from being meh about it, to being a lot better informed. Even if they don't choose to admit it!

Women don't NEED to support each other. I hate this new fashion for saying this. It's always used to mean "Agree with me!"

I enjoy rugby and gaming. I'M FINALLY COOL!! 😁

Very interesting post and I think you are right