To think my husband is taking the piss?!?

[Summer1980US]

I’m interested to hear how other mums and partners manage childcare. Currently I do the bulk of childcare while my DH is off playing golf most weekends.

We both work full time. My husband has a busy job and leaves the house at 530am and is back about 630pm. This leaves me to get the DDs(1 and 3) ready for crèche and do drop off and collection every day. DDs go to bed at 7/730 so DH has limited interaction with kids during the week.

At the weekend he leaves for golf on Saturday at 7am and comes back at 2pm. After this he usually requires a nap. He spends some time with DDs between 4-7.

Sundays are usually better and he is only away for a couple of hours in the morning. He does spent a couple of hours quality time with the kids on a Sunday.

I’m so exhausted and overwhelmed from being the main caregiver. I know men are generally less involved with DD, but at this stage I feel like he is really taking the piss!!

Did he play golf for all of those times before you had kids too?

Did he play golf and nap and work all of those hours before you had kids too?

You are being unreasonable by ALLOWING your DH to take the piss out of you instead of taking his share of responsibility as a father, husband, home owner.

So long as you consent, comply, go along with letting him being a selfish feckless slob, he has no reason to change.

So, first thing that need to change, is you. You are NOT his skivvy, housekeeper, nanny and domestic doormat

Golf is a game for men who don't like their wives.
Take heed.

Fuck that. He's taking the piss but you already know that op I think.

Have you sat down and spoke about it? My dh can have rather outdated views on stuff like this but how I tackle it is I turn it on its head. The few times I've had to do this his face says it all. There is no excuse at all if you both work full time, you both get equal leisure time. How do you think he'd react if you took yourself off on a girls brunch every single Saturday, came home, wanted a nap and then went off shopping on a Sunday morning? He'd soon have something to say about it.

You need to have a frank and clear conversation.

That's where I'm going with this.

If he came into this relationship as someone who spent the weekends on his hobbies or generally kicking back then it's reasonable to assume that's how he rolls.

If he spent his weekends desperately wanting to care for children (or caring for children) and then as soon as children came along he changed his mind he's being unreasonable.

Equally if he said he wanted to quit Saturday golf to have kids and insisted on having kids and then didn't bother then he's being unreasonable.

If someone said to him "Hey, let's have kids, I know you're not keen but it won't be too much work and you can still play golf." Less so.

At least you get some help at times. My DH is NEVER at home. Apart from at bed time (his own) of course. He’s busy, but he’s never given our 6 year old a bath or put her to bed. Not ONCE. I’m used to it now, but he can go three or four days without seeing her. We work together and that is when I talk to him the most.

But, it could be worse. He could be around all the time and that would drive me mad!

Your only hope is to talk to him if you want him to help more.

How you roll back from is that you tell him he either steps up and starts engaging in family life and parenting his children equally and stops acting like he’s free and single or you will divorce him. And mean it.

Why on earth are you tolerating this bullshit? So sad that your conditioned to think it’s somehow normal that his penis excuses him from contributing the same as you to family life, and that of course you do more, being the woman. Bloody awful!

He's taking the piss. For reasons related to his anatomy, he thinks his hobbies and free time are sufficiently important that he doesn't have to pull his weight or participate in family time.

We’re an FF couple so no gender imbalance norms to be influenced by, although the fact that my wife is the one who gave birth to our 15 month old definitely still impacts a bit on how we look after her as wife still does a first thing and last thing breastfeed. The older our toddler has got the less the ‘who is birth mummy who is other mummy’ thing has impacted on who does the lions share of the primary caring though. I do think this could also be the case for MF couples, but often doesn’t seem to be based on what I see around us. Though we do know of some hands on dads who have done SPL, or cut down their work hours or who just generally pull their weight. At first your roles as parents are quite influenced by biology / who gave birth, but over time and definitely after about 9 months we found it mattered much less, and that transition would probably happen earlier in a non breastfeeding family.

Our pattern is roughly. We alternate WFH and WF office days in the week so the pre work and post work / dinner shifts are shared out equally. I always bath the toddler, and wife always puts him to bed and gets him up (at 6:15). Think this will change once toddler comes off the breast entirely at 18 months. I get up at 7 so do get a bit more sleep but I’m due to have baby number 2 so this pattern will reverse then. Wife works 4 days now, and I work 5 so she has the toddler on Fridays. Once we have number 2 I’ll also try to drop down to 4 days if work allows it.

At weekends I try to have at least a full morning out with the toddler so wife can have some time to herself as she does do a bit more in the week. The rest of the time we generally spend together and try to fit things like exercise, hobbies into nap times or occasionally one of us will have a night out, and the other will do bedtime (with a bottle if it’s me). Or we’ll go out after toddler is asleep and get my brother to babysit.

We try to split chores etc. though wife probably does a bit more as she does most of the laundry and I do more of the shopping, life admin, gardening etc and the laundry is a bit more regular and draining. Neither of us has a regular hobby (anymore - I used to play tennis but decided it wasn’t practical or fair to continue spending a weekend morning out of the house post baby).

Personally I think a good way to overcome the hurdle of unequal parenting expertise and expectations, is for more blokes to do a bit of parental leave during the baby stage, where they are in sole charge. So they get a chance to bond and to learn their kids needs and routines and gain some good parenting skills independently, so they can take that knowledge and expectation of more equal roles forward. This does require their partners giving up a bit of their leave and to some extent stepping back on parenting and accepting that their partner may do this differently or not as “well” as them. But all the couples that I’ve seen do it, seem to have a much more even split later on and the dads seem way more happy and confident as parents so seems well worth it.

Yes that’s the thing, he can’t expect to magically have the same relationship with them as you do when they’re older if he doesn’t pull his weight now. This is when the bonding and building of the relationship happens.

You have to come down hard on this OP, as otherwise you will be so full of resentment there will be no alternative but to divorce, as you won’t be able to stand the sight of him.

It sounds like a lonely & tiring way for you to live.

Who could blame you for feeling unhappy, you may as well be single.

If he had to take the girls one weekend a fortnight at least you'd get some time to yourself to recharge & have your own pursuits!

Haven't read the thread, but finally getting around to asking the question that always floats across my mind in threads like these. Am I the only person in the history of marriage to have agreed responsibilities before having children?

It often feels like it, on here.

You can argue that the people who agreed things in advance wouldn't be complaining, but I see no complaints from people regretting what they agreed, or with partners who aren't sticking to what was agreed, so it looks to me like agreements in advance just don't exist.

It seems the standard approach is just to assume that your partner will conform to you idea of how things will be, and when he doesn't, whip up a sense of righteous indignation with the help of a mumsnet mob, and give him a good yelling about not complying with the rules he never knew existed.

and give him a good yelling about not complying with the rules he never knew existed and that he might not have agreed to if spelled out in advance.

It's not normal OP.

When we had kids I changed my hours to start and finish earlier, and my husband did the same to start and finish later so we could share drop off and pick up (,even though it's not a job where this is traditionally done). He gave up his hobby that he did 2 evenings a week so we could share bed times when they were small. He took up an alternative hobby that he can do in lunch breaks/ an hour or so over the weekend that is completely flexible. We have the same numbers of nights out roughly and do something as a family every weekend. We alternate which kid we put to bed so we are always doing one (unless one of us is really busy and the other will put both kids to bed). We both work, and I would be absolutely exhausted without him doing his share (I'm exhausted anyway tbh). We split house chores and mental load (I do their social things, he does all the school / nursery finances etc).
If you split up, the minimum he would get in the normal arrangements is one night a week and every other weekend so he would be looking after them loads more than he is now. Yes he works long hours, but the kids at 1 and 3 are generally harder work than most jobs and commute. So you need equal leisure time, down time and you need some family time...otherwise you're not really functioning as a family. You need to talk to him. There is likely to be push back as if he is the type of person to take a load of time to himself when his partner has already been doing their share for the entire week, then he is completely lacking in empathy or inherently selfish so I doubt he is just going to do the right thing without a fight. I think you will need to threaten to leave or go and stay with friends or family for a month or something

Wow, once a month. That is a highway to resentment. Not that the OPs husband is not taking the piss. Golf on a saturday morning shouldn't be a problem. Tee off at 8, finish at 12, 1 beer and home by 1. Even the shittest golfers can get round in 4 hours. I don't think that is too much to ask. But as I said earlier, the extra hour of boozing and the subsequent nap aren't on, and OP needs to get her RandR in too. Empathy and compromise are needed here.

Laying down the law on once a month etc. is just over the top. You want him to share in the responsibilities, not ruin his life.

and give him a good yelling about not complying with the rules he never knew existed and that he might not have agreed to if spelled out in advance.

Mysterious and arcane rules like a fair division of labour, you mean? Why should his default be selfishness unless OP takes on the responsibility of spelling it out to him?

That is shocking and not normal. Who says men are less involved with daughters? None of the good dads I have ever known have ever been less involved than the daughters' mums.

What happens if you want to go out on a Saturday? You want to see a friend on a Saturday? You want to go out for the day as a family on a Saturday?

You have to adapt your life when you have children. A good dad would not go off doing a hobby every Saturday rather than spend time with his family.

I am shocked tbh and would never put up with this.

My friends dh played golf every weekend.
He’s an ex now.

You know he is being a complete CF.

I would definitely not tolerate this. Does he want to be a parent or not? The thing you said about men not being involved as much with DDs is BS - you need to change your mindset on this and on a few other things, we are not in the 1950s anymore.

The golf every weekend needs to stop right now. This is not a request, this is a demand if you want a functional relationship. (I was once 'lucky' enough to date a golfer in my early 20s - I swore never again!)

You need to talk to him. Tell him you are at breaking point. Work out a

TBH, during the week your routine sounds similar to mine. My DH leaves early and comes back later. Working from home has helped - is that an option for either of you a few days a week? TBH, my husband calls most of the shots during the week - he has a well paid, senior job and earns 3 times the amount I earn.

Stop this cycle of no spare time for you. You don't have the capacity to do this indefinitely.

He’s being a knob. Does he actually need a nap?! If he does I’d be getting him to see a doctor to find the cause of this fatigue.

Shocked that you both work full time yet have a babysitter every weekend. There’s no way I would be happy spending so little time with my kids. Especially when they are so young and changing so fast. I’d feel I was missing their childhood. Sounds like it’s not just him who isn’t fully committed to family life…

I would be pissed too...there are things that my DH could work on in terms of being a Husband but parenting is 50/50. In fact he probably changed more nappies than me and has his two girls wrapped around his little finger.

We both work, we split housework and we are equally involved in looking after the kids. He is a teacher which means holidays are usually spent with me working and him planning adventures with the girls. I get 5 weeks off a year so I do get to spend some time with them.

Today alone he has had them painting pottery, feeding sheep and they had a picnic in the park. Posts like this makes me feel really blessed. But also really annoyed for women who do not have the support they should.

You are unreasonable for thinking that dads interact less with daughters!!! Stop enabling him.

You need to even up the weekend 'time off' . He can play golf every other weekend and you can do what ever you wish on the opposite. He really needs to step up and be a parent. He also needs to be a partner in your marriage not a spectator. My ex husband did this and that's why he now my ex. We didn't have a partnership and certainly not a marriage . Its a very old fashioned view that women should be the main care givers. I would arrange a babysitter and tell him that you need a night out together to talk about it all.

Sit him down and tell him everything you have said here. He either starts to value you and make you and the children a priority or he can fuck off. Seriously, I’d be telling him it would be a 50:50 split with the children so he can figure out his leisure time with that in mind.

He is a selfish fucker and needs to wake up to what he is about to lose.