Does your children's high school give demit points...

[senneeds]

Our local high schools give demerit points to kids who are late, have lost or forgotten things, have not handed in homework etc; if a child gets a certain number of points they get dentition.

I was wondering if other people's high school's do the same?

I ask because I was diagnosed with ADHD in my 50s... and I don't remember my high school giving out demerit points for these behaviours; it bothers me a lot that this happens in our local schools because a child being late, losing and forgetting things and not handing in homework are all ADHD traits.

A child can not get diagnosed as having ADHD unless they have evidence of these behaviours - so does that mean our schools are effectively punishing kids for their disabilities?

And while some schools might make allowances for the kids with ADHD and other SENs which have known executive function deficits...how about the kids who have not been diagnosed yet? It can't be great for their self esteem to be getting the message that how their brain works is so undesirable that they need to be punished or threatened with punishment.

I found a survey by ADHD UK who surveyed 800 teachers and found that 74% of these teachers did not recognise difficulty with organisation to be a symptom of ADHD and 78% did not recognise difficulty interacting socially to be a symptom of ADHD. adhduk.co.uk/teachers-and-adhd/

I also found this article about ADHD in the classroom thought provoking:
www.fintanoregan.com/fairness-isnt-giving-everybody-the-same-its-giving-everybody-what-they-need/

YANBU - yes my local high school gives demerit points to kids who are late, have lost or forgotten things, have not handed in homework etc.

YABU - no my local high school does not give demerit points to kids who are late, have lost or forgotten things, have not handed in homework etc.

No it isn’t. There are very few TAs in schools. The vast vast majority of SEN support is provided delivered by teachers.

That will vary from school to school. Ds school has a fantastic learning support department that is mainly staffed by teaching assistants who also work throughout the school. It is the main reason I picked the school for ds because of the effort they had put into that set up

I disagree with this. Reasonable judgment doesn’t mean the rules don’t apply. It means that there is support available to help the pupil comply with those rules. If a pupil struggles to complete homework on time then they could complete homework at school under the supervision of staff, they can be reminded to attend this homework session and even brought to it by an staff or a senior pupils. But they should still have to complete homework and hand it in on time in most cases.

But this department will only be dealing with a minority of the SEN support required. If it is a normal state mainstream.

All students can access it if needed.

im not saying the teachers don’t do a lot and a fantastic job of it but the TA support is there where needed to the help beyond what can be done in a classroom setting without

I understand what you are saying. What I am saying is that most of the SEN support is delivered in a way that is probably invisible to the pupils and parents. It is subtle and routine. It is the bread and butter of teaching.

It can mean rules don't apply.

For example where there is a stict uniform policy, exceptions may be made if a child can't wear the uniform due to their disability or other protected characteristic.
Or where there are rules around lunches, but the school make an exception for children on special diets.

Obviously if appropriate support can be given to help to child meet the rule then this is preferable. But if the support isn't available then there should be no negative consequences for the child.

In my opinion the uniform should not be scrapped altogether nor should the lunch routines be entirely disregarded. Instead an adjustment would be a variation in the uniform which could be bespoke and alternative lunch time arrangements that mirror as closely as possible the routines followed by others.
This is different from allowing pupils to wear entirely what they choose or free choice about when, where and what they eat.
The rules still apply and this is an important principle. As an adjustment, pupils are supported to comply.

If Ds isn’t allowed to eat what he wants and where he wants he wouldn’t eat and he would have massive meltdowns. He is at the end of year 7 and has never set foot in the dining room because he can’t cope with it at all. He eats in a safe place for him, he eats the same every day (an apple and a packet of crisps) to force anything else would be counterproductive. He is mainly tube fed and that is done at break time in school so he doesn’t go with his peers then either.

@senneeds I’ve linked to Glasgow’s document on promoting positive behaviour here Promoting Positive Behaviour.

The wider approach to education is reflected across their learning strategy but also through Health, Social Care, Housing and Police so hard to centre in one document. If you google Glasgow nurture and schools there’s loads of stuff that outlines the approach taken to really try and centre children within the education system. Glasgow have seen a 75% reduction in exclusions following this approach and using restorative approaches to behaviour management.

Things are by no means perfect, and Glasgow as a city has its challenges but I do think their less punitive approach is worth consideration.

A reasonable adjustment here would be the same place and time each day. Loads of pupils have similar adjustments. They learn that they can comply with rules even though the rules might be different from those followed by others. If your son is allowed to eat at any time this causes problems with supervision - schools work to timetables so having individuals choosing when they eat each day would be difficult to manage. However, if this a particular need for your son, I would imagine it is written into his plan as this goes beyond being an adjustment that most schools could make and therefore he is likely to need enhanced support.

I disagree with this. Reasonable judgment doesn’t mean the rules don’t apply. It means that there is support available to help the pupil comply with those rules.

It may also mean the rules are set aside. My DD hasn’t done homework throughout her primary years. She has a specialist tutor (privately funded) who works with her particular learning style, class based homework was increasingly stressful given how overwhelmed she was in coping with the school day - she does undertake learning activities at home but no formal homework. We’ll start working with her on more structured homework this year, which is her final year at primary.

You missed the part of the quote where I said ‘in most cases’. I would argue that your child is doing homework. She is just doing different homework which is also possible at secondary although the system I have described above works in most cases.

Actually what's clear is that you don't have the faintest fucking idea about me, or my motivations for posting, and have decided to leap straight to assumptions and abuse rather than, I dunno, asking what my experience is that is leading to me objecting to children with those SEN having such negative generalisations made about them.

No fucking clue at all. Perhaps you should consider that before posting such pompous self-righteous tripe in future.

thanks very much Jellycatspyjamas