To think Britain is pretty backwards with breastfeeding?

[Bluffysummers]

I just had an interesting experience (month or so ago) and I’ve been left pondering is it just the UK that pretty backwards with regards to attitudes towards breastfeeding?

as needs must, ive fed both of my kids in public, as discreetly as I can but both kids hated nursing covers, I do prefer a breastfeeding room but ones not always available and when a kids gotta eat a kids gotta eat. in the UK I’ve for sure had quite a few looks and tuts but the head scratcher for me was on hols.

so in Disneyland Paris, a real melting pot of cultures as we know, visitors from around the globe. Fed baby from numerous locations around the park, sat next to Italians who struck up a conversation (no second glance or funny looks) smiles from french people who’ve told their kids to sssh to not distract baby from milk (I speak french and broken Italian so that helps lol. Chatted to some emiratis and Turkish people whilst feeding no second glance or anything weird. No one batted an eyelid until we went to a restaurant In Disney village, and was sitting behind a young British couple. Baby needed feeding, so feed, well the woman (mid to late 20s) hit the roof and demanded the waiter reseat her, he said there were no more tables, she proceeded to tell him she felt physically sick by what was happening behind her, and asked if she could have rest of the meal to go and a dessert to go. The waiter was baffled, and asked why, and said they didn’t have takeout boxes. She got huffy and left half of her food and walked out. I can assume she thought I was french as obviously speaking to waiters in french. After the left, the waiter gave me a wink and said it was a ridiculous attitude.

but it got me wondering , is it just us Brits that are a bit backwards breastfeeding wise? I know my holiday is hardly an academic study but no other group of people seemed to react . I’m on a few social media bf groups and there are so so many posts of discrimination and nasty comments. So what do we think? Is it a UK problem?

Yawn. Of course the person who believes breast milk is better than formula milk would also believe bedsharing is better for babies than actual safe sleep.

@SEVENUPCHERRY so you don’t believe that it is better? Human milk for human infants is not superior? Hmm…
co-sleeping is safer. Perhaps not in cultures where other factors create risk but overall it is safer.

@gotelltheoldmandowntheroad you are correct in every sense. Couldn’t have written it better.

The argument that there isn’t enough support in the UK… just as much of our parenting knowledge comes from our peers & elders so should feeding support. Many of my friends ask me for guidance as I have asked others. The fact that no one around us feeds(in a large portion of the country) means it’s all very abstract.
It has to be visible. In the first instance Children have to grow up seeing it. My friend came to visit with her 5 year old daughter when I had just delivered & she didn’t understand that I was feeding. I’d go so far as to say she was confused to the point of upset. Meanwhile my own daughter at that age would lift her top up to feed her dolls. It’s culturally not the norm here.

@SEVENUPCHERRY. You sound like you might benefit from reading up on one or two things...

It’s scientific fact that breastmilk is the best thing for a baby to have. It’s tailored to the exact needs of human infants. Breastmilk is better than formula.

BUT not by a huge amount….. On a very basic level as above it is superior nutritionally but when you factor in other things - maternal physical or mental health especially the balance tips and so on some cases formula is equal or better than breastmilk. Formula is produced to be as close to breastmilk as is possible and although it lacks some things it still contains all the right fats , proteins, vitamins and minerals

Just finished breastfeeding my 4th child. Minimum 2 years each.ast one was 3 years. Honestly can't say anyone has ever said anything to me or made any funny faces apart from my nan in the beginning. But turns out she couldn't do it as she was on steroids for asthma or something so thi k she was a bit jealous but she got over it.

If anything my turkish partners famy were the ones to talk when I went over 2 years. Just ignore and carry on op. Some people are weird

@Bottlesandjars I know many women who felt their mental health was suffering because they could not leave their baby to go to the hairdressers. Because they couldn’t have a weekend away or were stressed out not knowing how much milk their baby was getting. This is more of the western cultural belief that a mother’s needs trump the child’s. I’ve lots count of the times I have been told my babies are too attached to me because I haven’t left them to go on a hen do etc. it’s weird.
If the world stops breastfeeding we are in grave trouble. In fact we wouldn’t survive because formula just won’t cut it.
Luckily a good enough proportion of women around the globe don’t have this myriad of problems feeding their babies that those in the west seem to have.

I think a massive issue as well is healthcare professionals in those first few days and weeks asking how much baby is having and focusing too much on intake when actually output is a brilliant indicator that a baby is getting enough milk. Sadly this leads to new mothers worrying and needing the reassurance that they can see how many oz/ml baby is drinking.

In terms of maternal mental health I do think it’s important that for those who choose to formula feed or combi feed are not made to feel bad whatever their threshold may be for choosing to use formula - it’s good it is there as a safe option

@Bottlesandjars I don’t disagree. There of course has to be an alternative but I think we’ve moved too far into ‘what’s best for mum is what’s best for baby’. It’s almost frowned upon to put the needs of your children first. New parents struggle with the disruption to their lives because they are fed the idea that a baby should just slot into their lives.
The threshold for not/stopping BF should not be that you can’t go to the Gym, get your roots done etc. I think women know this & that’s why they are so easily triggered at the mention of BF.
Mental illness is not a problem for the vast majority of people yet the majority aren’t BF. The stats simply don’t tally.

The trouble with a lot of the BFing promotion is that we've lost the knowledge of BFing reality - that it doesn't work for everyone, the risk factors for milk delay and low supply, that some babies need supplementing, that it's ok to feed them both breastmilk and formula. There's a fear of a baby having even one bottle of formula and an obsession with EBF when babies throughout history haven't been EBF by their mum.

I spent time on maternity leave with a group of 90+ year olds. They'd had their babies in a poor area, long before formula was widely available. They knew the realities of BFing and the dangers and were horrified that my baby had been put in danger because of EBFing - she was readmitted seriously ill with dehydration and had to be tube fed formula to save her life.

Babies throughout history have needed to be BF by a wet nurse (and not just because women of a certain class didn't feed their own babies) or fed some kind of substitute (there are baby 'bottles' 1000s of years old in museums). The problem was that those substitutes and 'bottles' weren't sterile and were unsuitable eg cow's milk or honey etc.

In terms of MH (as someone who was diagnosed with severe PND because of BFIng) the reality now is very different to the past. Women once had 'confinement' for up to 40 days after the birth where they stayed in bed resting and recovering, other women brought them food and did all the chores and changed the baby and all they did was BF the baby.

Now we're in awful postnatal wards where you're expected to care for your baby yourself, full of other families so lots of noise and no prospect of rest.

I got loads of advice for dealing with my milk delay and then low supply involving staying in bed, doing skin to skin for hours and just feed feed feed. But my reality was being on my own other than my baby for over ten hours a day with no one to talk to, or bring food or anything (DH brought me something before he went to work). I hated doing that, missing all the hours of daylight, it was so miserable and isolating.

@RidingMyBike very interesting. Yes there seems to be a view that ‘in the past’ exclusive and extended breastfeeding was the norm, when it wasn’t - people used to wean their babies at anything from 6 weeks old, giving them broth and soup etc. Wet nurses were common, and as you say bottles have been around for hundreds if not thousands of years. I remember seeing a small cup with a narrow spout in a museum which said it was used to feed babies. There were no books back then, no advice, no guidelines. Everyone effectively winged it, ‘nature’ doesn’t impart the instinctive guidance that we think it does.

@RidingMyBike i also think people need to take the statistics with a pinch of salt. Even a mum like you, who breastfed to 3.5, wouldn’t count in the ‘1% breastfed at 6 months old’ - even 1 sip of formula discounts a baby from being counted. I don’t think breastfeeding is as vanishingly rare as is so often repeated on here.

@SEVENUPCHERRY um... bed sharing is safe sleeping? It's only the horror stories you see in media where it wasn't done safely that leads you to believe it's anything other than that. I also see bed sharing blamed in click bait headlines where the cause of death is completely unrelated but it makes for a better headline.

Bed sharing is a cultural norm in a lot of countries- japan, Vietnam, Philippines, Latin America to name a few. Obviously it's not for everyone but don't judge those who do it.

I'll ignore the denial of breast milk being better for babies because it's clearly a trigger.

I live in Bristol where breastfeeding is widely "accepted" I've fed for 8 1/2 months now. Always refused to wear a cover because why should I.

Never had any negative comments. Was actually feeding in a sofa show room on the weekend and the sales lady said how lovely it was to be able to feed your child.

I'm sorry you've had negative reactions I'm lucky I haven't.

Or rather their lucky because I wouldn't take it lightly

I rarely ever see women nursing and if I do, they're doing with a blanket over their baby's face.
I nursed everywhere and quite openly. I plan to again. I make the point that unless we are seen, nursing will never truly be normalised again.

Yep @Wouldloveanother the bonkers definition of EBFing doesn't help and also leads to some poor babies not getting enough milk in order to meet that 'target' - I've seen some scrawny thin babies who BF round the clock and never settle pictured in some online groups and just think, give them a top up!

My county barely had a functioning HV service, no developmental checks being offered to families so there was no mechanism for recording feeding stats for an entire county where BFing seemed very common. I think the fact I was combi-feeding was noted at my 6 week postnatal check but other than that no one would have had a clue.

Yes I remember dm feeding my younger sister so wanted to bf but I didn't find it easy