To think Britain is pretty backwards with breastfeeding?

[Bluffysummers]

I just had an interesting experience (month or so ago) and I’ve been left pondering is it just the UK that pretty backwards with regards to attitudes towards breastfeeding?

as needs must, ive fed both of my kids in public, as discreetly as I can but both kids hated nursing covers, I do prefer a breastfeeding room but ones not always available and when a kids gotta eat a kids gotta eat. in the UK I’ve for sure had quite a few looks and tuts but the head scratcher for me was on hols.

so in Disneyland Paris, a real melting pot of cultures as we know, visitors from around the globe. Fed baby from numerous locations around the park, sat next to Italians who struck up a conversation (no second glance or funny looks) smiles from french people who’ve told their kids to sssh to not distract baby from milk (I speak french and broken Italian so that helps lol. Chatted to some emiratis and Turkish people whilst feeding no second glance or anything weird. No one batted an eyelid until we went to a restaurant In Disney village, and was sitting behind a young British couple. Baby needed feeding, so feed, well the woman (mid to late 20s) hit the roof and demanded the waiter reseat her, he said there were no more tables, she proceeded to tell him she felt physically sick by what was happening behind her, and asked if she could have rest of the meal to go and a dessert to go. The waiter was baffled, and asked why, and said they didn’t have takeout boxes. She got huffy and left half of her food and walked out. I can assume she thought I was french as obviously speaking to waiters in french. After the left, the waiter gave me a wink and said it was a ridiculous attitude.

but it got me wondering , is it just us Brits that are a bit backwards breastfeeding wise? I know my holiday is hardly an academic study but no other group of people seemed to react . I’m on a few social media bf groups and there are so so many posts of discrimination and nasty comments. So what do we think? Is it a UK problem?

Cow tit milk 😂 do you call eggs ‘chicken ovulations’ as well?

Do you not believe women when they say they couldn't and it didn't work out? Do you think they are lying and it's just cos they didn't want to and didn't want to admit it?

That’s interesting @turquoise1988 Dc1 was combi fed at the start (tongue tie) and I found myself justifying it constantly too…

probably just did above actually

oh yeah this lady, maybe she had her reasons, was just a bit of an arse and most aren’t that extreme even if they do have a problem but still even my own mother who breastfed myself and my siblings doesn’t believe it should be done in public… wondering how much of this is a cultural thing. Didn’t have any second glances feeding in France but I guess paris might be different than a rural village attitude wise

🙄

British and Americans

Breasts are sexual to a lot of people.

Could you point me to the research that shows these are the reasons breastfeeding rates are low in the UK please?

No, I can't. I don't even know if there is any. But I am old enough to know that these are the reasons that a lot of mums who never breastfeed or who stop breastfeeding before weaning age

You see OP, already posters on here are getting all huffy about it. Such a touchy subject it seems. But no, I don't think you're wrong. As pp have said, the attitude is reflected in our breastfeeding rates. I don't know if you read the thread a couple of days ago, but although not the majority, a significant percentage admitted to being uncomfortable with seeing breastfeeding in public. Bearing in mind that this is Mumsnet, and very pro BF, the percentage in real life is bound to be higher.

For what it's worth though, I am now on my 8th year of BF (2 years per 4 children). Never had a negative comment (that I'm aware of).

I think that BF rates in the UK are so low because the support and education around it is absolutely shit and it trickles down to not being the ‘norm’
I was adamant to BF my LO but three weeks in, absolutely no support from midwives on where I could turn to, my HV told me to just give up as I had a ‘big baby’. Knowing what I know now, I am absolutely gutted I gave up so soon.
I can’t comment on BF but I have been shamed for bottle feeding, mostly by the older generation though. Out of my friends who have had babies, only one has actually stuck to BF so I do salute you OP, I found it incredibly hard and I’m sorry that you had that reaction.

🤔hmm

Breastfed my kids for 7 years in UK. Never had a bad comment.

Some right dicks on this post.
OP you didn’t claim to be something special by breastfeeding so I don’t know why people have made that assumption?!
I didn’t get any comments or looks (as far as o was aware) when BF but I totally believe your story. Some people are arseholes. I can’t say yes or no in regards to whether the attitude is a Brit thing, cos I guess you can bump into arseholes anywhere!

also, the poster who said BF in public comes down to experience - nah it doesn’t. I was 27 and had no problem BF my first (and second) baby in public. I didn’t need “experience” to feel like I should or shouldn’t feed my baby when she was hungry, no matter where I was.

I know, it’s quite remarkable, you’d think I actually said something offensive, either that or the lady in question is on the thread

I do think some women get really defensive about FF and BF. It is becoming more normalised and in the media and SM. I used to get a bit defensive as well about FF but my DDs now 9 perfectly healthy and I don't know why I got so het up about it. It's such a small part of the parenting journey. I didn't pursue with BF because I wanted my body back, was sick of cluster feeding and wanted my OH to share the load as I'd had no sleep. I slept 12 hours that night I gave up and my DD slept form 10pm - 7 am for the first time. I'm happy with my choice and I feel women should do what feels best for them with no guilt.

Sorry she was weird.

I’ve only had positive comments when I’ve had any at about feeding, most of the time I don’t think people even notice. Kind smiles, offers of drinks, unprompted glasses of water, “oh I remember those days”, “aww, lucky baby” sort of thing.

The only people who’ve ever asked how I was feeding were women who’d formula fed who immediately told me it was too much like hard work to BF, dad needed a chance to bond, it’s lonely and isolating, they didn’t get on with it. I’ve never ever asked a woman with a baby how it was fed, I’m not remotely interested. But despite the large majority of mums in the U.K. formula feeding I’ve always found it odd when people ask at all and even weirder when they diss one of the answers you could give.

@DearieMeWhatsUp Do you know what? As I was writing my previous post, I was thinking, "I wonder how long it will take for someone to come along and invent some way to get offended about what I've just said in order to try and start some beef?"

I swear you can not post on this forum nowadays without a little gaggle of posters, from the safety of anonymity behind their computer or phone screens, spending their evenings on here just gunning for an argument disguised as a 'debate.'

Please, for the love of humanity, find something else to do with your time.

And before you tell yourself that I am responding in this way because I don't have an answer to your questions...It doesn't matter whether I believe or don't believe anyone's reasons for breastfeeding. I genuinely, honestly, truly couldn't care less how anyone feeds their child and their reasons behind it.

Breastfeeding threads send some people on here into a total frenzy. They just go round and round in circles, for days on end. I was simply posting my unbiased opinion, free from judgement about how anyone chooses to feed.

There was a thread a while back about American mat leave that went into a convo about bf rates and the overarching opinion was that Americans are more favourable to bf than us in the UK.

i can’t comment either way but by way on anecdotes of the Americans I know a lot seem to pump at work because they go back so early so that must mean they are breastfeeding too?

Do you not believe women when they say they couldn't and it didn't work out? Do you think they are lying and it's just cos they didn't want to and didn't want to admit it?

It's not as simple as that. How do you define "couldn't"? It's quite rare for a woman to physically not be able to breastfeed.

But of course there are other reasons as to why they couldn't, e.g. baby born prematurely so it was difficult to establish breastfeeding, family/partner not encouraging breastfeeding as they also want to feed the baby, partner wants breasts for himself, PND. And many other reasons

I had friends in london who said everyone bf and you were more likely to be judged for not.

Where I lived (home counties) half of my NCT group of 8 were openly in the "breastfeeding is a bit cringe/urgh" camp. Honestly. Another was not, but didnt believe it should ever be done in public and always expressed for bottles out and about. Another was neutral about other people doing it but no intention of doing it herself. It was literally only me and one other who were keen to bf and the other lady was of south Asian heritage with very different cultural view of bf.

This was around 5 years ago. I was genuinely surprised how vehement a couple of the women were about it being "gross", it literally seemed to give them the ick!

Pumping is more acceptable in America than actually feeding directly from the breast

What an odd reply. You psychically know the reasons other women stop breastfeeding because of your age? With respect doesn’t that make you more likely to be out of touch as to what happens at the moment with new mums?

i think a lot of women that really value breastfeeding (usually middle class slightly older mums) have a real issue understanding that for lots of mums, breastfeeding just isn’t a high priority - more of a ‘if it’s easy I’ll carry on, if not I’ll stop, no biggie’. Given the health benefits are very small I don’t think that’s unreasonable.

Oh and attitudes make a massive difference. It really helped me keep going that i knew my own mum had bf me, and my MiL was supportive, her view was just "well we are mammals, it's what breasts are for", whereas the girls I knew who were funny about it had mothers and in laws who thought it was weird.

The attitude is reflected in breastfeeding rates as someone said up thread.

I hardly ever fed DS1 in public in the early days - didn't go out that much with him to start with as felt so self conscious. On one occasion there was a couple in a John Lewis cafe who gave me funny looks when I fed him. Luckily he was about 8 months by that point so I was reasonably confident but it might have put me off if it had happened when he was much younger. That was 7 years ago, so not that long ago.

Just because some posters haven't experienced negativity doesn't mean it doesn't exist

There definitely are women who never wanted to BF but don’t feel they can say that so use one of these reasons for FF. It gives the impression that far more women “can’t” BF than is probably the case and leads to pregnant women saying things like “I’ll BF if I can” rather than assuming they probably can if they want to and have adequate support. It also breads a narrative of “you’re BF because you’re lucky enough to be able to”. Other countries have much highest rates of BF babies not because boobs work better in some than others. Decent education about normal infant feeding behaviour would mean fewer women think they don’t have enough milk or that their milk didn’t come in because it’s normal to produce colostrum for a few days first.

Women wrongly thinking a large number of women can’t breastfeed, don’t have milk, don’t have enough milk etc means fewer women even start as it sounds like it’s doomed to fail and those that want to don’t get advice to deal with normal issues getting started.

i can’t comment either way but by way on anecdotes of the Americans I know a lot seem to pump at work because they go back so early so that must mean they are breastfeeding too?

BF rates in the US are higher than in the UK. I was surprised by this but it seems this is part of it - a lot of American women start pumping at birth to build up a supply for when they go back to work so supply is established well that way. I read an interesting book about this a while ago - cannot recall the name of it though!

I used to work in feeding support. It is certainly the case that some women in the Uk do not breastfeed because they view their breasts as sexual or ‘belonging to my partner’ (quoting verbatim). Of course that’s not the reason that MOST women don’t breastfeed but the pp who mentioned it shouldn’t have been shot down quite so fiercely!

It's always the church people. Get over yourself.