Man in women’s changing rooms (NOT trans)

[DelisButAlsoCrime]

I genuinely don’t know if I am being unreasonable here or not.

I went swimming with DS today, and arriving at the same time of us was a mini bus with 8 adults - 7 men, one woman. It was fairly obvious that most of the males were disabled, not quite as severe as Down’s Syndrome but similar. The woman and one of the men were caring for them. All but one of the men went with the male carer to the men’s changing room, but the female and one of the men went, just ahead of me, into the female dressing room. The woman actually held the door open for me but I kind of did a double take and held back. I thought about going to reception and asking them but decided not to. When I went in they had gone into one of the private cubicles. However, they did come out before I was ready and the man came around the corner and was looking quite obviously into the open changing spaces.

AIBU to be uncomfortable with this? I don’t know if there is a disabled changing room at my gym because this would be the obvious answer if he needed to be specifically with the female carer.

That's 120 in mixed sex facilities Vs 14 in single sex facilities. Data collected from FOI request by Andrew Gillingham and published in The Times as detailed in the article, perhaps you couldn't be arse to actually read it.

Is The Times the FWR version of breitbart, this is news to me and I'm sure both Andrew Gillingham and The Times would disagree with your dismissive characterisation. Although I'm sure they won't be as upset as the 120 people whose assault you think is laughable.

How many assaults would there need to be to persuade you that single sex spaces are safer for women?

It won't go down well here but my personal take on things like this is to judge each situation for what it is (or seems).

In this case the man was clearly disabled and with a carer. I would therefore assume he was being supervised and needed help not that he was there to perv on me or anyone else. If he was in a private cubicle it honestly wouldn't bother me.

The same as the thread about the man with the 3 year old twin daughters in the ladies loo, yes not ideal but it's obvious why he's in there.

If there was just a random man wandering about in female only spaces or behaving suspiciously I would feel differently.

I understand some women have their own reasons for feeling violated or uncomfortable by this but I personally don't mind if there is someone who needs to be in the space to protect or care for someone vulnerable. The obvious solution is to provide more facilities for these type of situations.

@CherryColaRoller @Trying20

I actually, genuinely cannot tell which “side” of the trans argument either of you are on.

FWIW if I thought a trans identifying man was trying to use the women’s changing room I wouldn’t have hesitated in complaining to them, to reception, to the gym manager, head office or whatever.

But this was a disabled man, with a female carer, who was part of a larger group of disabled adults. I wasn’t sure at the time (or at the time of posting) whether I was being unreasonable about being uncomfortable, but after these responses I am assured that actually the situation was wrong. Not least, from the perspective of the man himself which was something I (probably selfishly) hadn’t considered.

I'm quite sure if you are raped you do not give shit about how statistically unlikely the thing that happened to you was.

Who are you pandering to when you so easily dismiss the concerns of women?

Your "yawn" response to the discussion of sexual assault suggests you are not a particularly compassionate individual.

Tell me you're being sarky and don't actually believe that?

It's you who does not understand probability. There is a statistically low risk of being raped in any given situation in the UK. Although the risk in any given instance is low, the cumulative lifetime risk of sexual assault is high, and some situations are higher risk than others. It therefore makes perfect sense to try to reduce the risk. In the case of changing rooms, the risk is considerably higher in mixed sex spaces.

It is not only callous to mock women for wanting to lower the risk of sexual assault, it demonstrates your own poor grasp of risk.

I wish you had brought this to the attention of the pool manager. It is totally inappropriate for any males to be in female changing rooms above 7 years old. There was a male carer in men's changing room he should have been in there as seemingly did not need hoist. If not possible to have 6:1 ratio then they should have sent another carer or female carer and female and 1 male waited in reception until other 5 males CV hanged then single male into men as changing be room with male carer, then all males wait in male changing be room until female helps female in women's changing room then meet in pool. It is just not on to invade we female spaces. I would have complained.

Yes, I should have. I think I was just a bit shocked by the situation (and although there is plenty of discussion here and elsewhere about men in women’s facilities it’s never something I’d personally encountered), second guessing myself, and the fact I had a toddler desperate to get in the pool - then afterwards all the hassle of getting past the soft play without a tantrum!

What about at our local leisure centre)/ soft play where the only baby change is in the women's toilets? If my partners on his own, is he allowed in to change babies nappy?
... Toilets I think is fine as like pp say, he's there to care for baby ... But tbh I'd feel quite different about if it was a changing room.

That's why they should have female, male, and mixed sex. I think you should write and complain to Virgin Active.

There are plenty of foldable baby changing mats on the market which he could use in the men's toilets but I think it would be preferable to ask the leisure centre for baby changing in the mens toilets or better yet a family toilet with baby changing facilities. Adequate facilities for father's will never be made available as long as we continue to accept it's OK for them to go into the women's toilets.

@titicktickticktickBOOM, I am amazed you feel 8 and 9 year old girls are too young to change in female changing rooms alone. At my swimming club the my ment a child is 8 they use their own biological sex changing room. I have known men with 7 year old daughters send them into female changing room to change alone and meet them in the pool. I think a better option than taking them I to males open changing room where they would see naked men and men would see them naked. Not all changing rooms have cubicles.

If there wasn’t a disabled changing are, not sure what choice they had apart from the woman cared going into the mens changing area, which would be just a problematic, or just the man never going swimming, which is a bit crap. The fact that the man had a one to one carer probably means he has absolutely no interest in eyeing out women and being with the carer is unlikely to be any kind of threat. I think there has to be some kind of leeway for these situations, but may be biased.

Yes, separate issue but very frustrating. I’m nearly 9 months’ pregnant and lifting DS onto a changing table in public is a struggle but no choice when they’re only in women’s facilities. I don’t like the fact that often the other option is for them to be in disabled loos because it can take a while and that’s not fair on wheelchair users then having to wait when they should be the priority for the disabled toilets. But again, separate issue which I’m sure has been debated extensively on Mumsnet!!

I never had anything to hide 🤷🏻‍♀️

This isn’t a trans issue. I never made it into one. You did.

Are you saying if you don't agree TWAW then you can't use mumsnet or public facilities?