Man in women’s changing rooms (NOT trans)

[DelisButAlsoCrime]

I genuinely don’t know if I am being unreasonable here or not.

I went swimming with DS today, and arriving at the same time of us was a mini bus with 8 adults - 7 men, one woman. It was fairly obvious that most of the males were disabled, not quite as severe as Down’s Syndrome but similar. The woman and one of the men were caring for them. All but one of the men went with the male carer to the men’s changing room, but the female and one of the men went, just ahead of me, into the female dressing room. The woman actually held the door open for me but I kind of did a double take and held back. I thought about going to reception and asking them but decided not to. When I went in they had gone into one of the private cubicles. However, they did come out before I was ready and the man came around the corner and was looking quite obviously into the open changing spaces.

AIBU to be uncomfortable with this? I don’t know if there is a disabled changing room at my gym because this would be the obvious answer if he needed to be specifically with the female carer.

@BringBackCoffeeCreams I agree with you

If my disabled mother was taken into Male changing rooms before swimming. I'd have something to say about that

There are many reasons that the male carer wasn't an option for this person

Ratios, him being better suited to 1:1 with a female carer in challenging situations, maybe he has a history of sexual abuse and is only comfortable being helped to change by a woman.

Some times it’s written into care plans that personal care or changing must be completed by women or men specifically. Same with general support, it might be written into individual care plans that support has to be provided by males or females specifically due to safeguarding.

it’s easy to put the onus on staff to find disabled facilities, however under the equality act 2010 facilities need to make provision for disabled people. This is the law

Why are some women feeling uncomfortable. There will be a reason for this, hardly the same as a random man coming in and just deciding to change in there

For me, it's largely because as a disabled woman, I'm imagining how I would feel if there was a 'reason' why I had to be changed in the men's room. That reason would be out of my control and largely at a carer and/or facility's choice. It makes me very uncomfortable and I understand the discomfort others.

I can't think of a reason good enough for terrible provisions for disabled people, even if it's sadly a too common reality. I also loathe the too common idea that disabled people are sexless and no concerns about our dignity or our capacity to harm should be considered.

OP, I understand you not saying something in the moment, getting caught off guard often leaves me tongue tied, but can you contact the leisure centre now afterwards to discuss your concerns?

You're trying so hard to assure op that this situation, which you weren't witness to, was PERFECTLY OK, and she's being "ridiculous" to suggest it wasn't handled perfectly.
It's so tedious. Really, really bloody tedious.
Some women in that changing room could also feasibly be victims of sexual abuse, and not want a man in their changing room.

This was a male in the female changing room. Would it have been OK if the entire group of 7 men and 1 woman had used the female changing facilities? If not, why not?

Why do you think it's ridiculous for women to want privacy and single sex facilities when they are getting undressed?

Do you think women whose religion does not permit them to use mixed sex facilities are less important then men with additional needs?

What about survivors of sexual violence are the ridiculous for wanting single sex facilities too?.

And the women who have a history of sexual abuse?

This was a Virgin Active, so a private gym rather than a public one. But obviously that doesn’t absolve them of EA responsibilities, just that perhaps they’re less versed in them.

As I said, I don’t know if there is a disabled changing area but I have a feeling there isn’t m a mixed sex one, I haven’t ever noticed one - the disabled facilities are within the sexed changing rooms IYSWIM. In which case, there is a competing EA protected characteristic - disability v sex - that the onus is on the gym to resolve in these circumstances.

Ratios, him being better suited to 1:1 with a female carer in challenging situations, maybe he has a history of sexual abuse and is only comfortable being helped to change by a woman.

Wrong.

Ratios. Female could have waited outside the changingroom with clients while others got changed in the men's with the male carer or the company needed to provide more male carers or reduce client numbers.
If the client would only have female support then they need to use a place that has separate facilities where she can support him to change and the dignity and privacy of women is not compromised.
Womens needs are not to be cast aside to meet male needs especially when there was other options.

Ratios, him being better suited to 1:1 with a female carer in challenging situations, maybe he has a history of sexual abuse and is only comfortable being helped to change by a woman

I'm surprised you care considering you're openly saying on another thread that disabled children and people are a drain and no use to society.

One local pool has the specialist changing facility ( with changing bed) within the female changing room. You have to walk into that room to get to it. Sometimes no thought has gone into facilities for disabled people.

Interesting, given that a lengthy thread only a few days ago, largely concluded that able bodied people should use disabled spaces. Apparently that wasn't disrespectful or treating us like children, because able bodied people said they needed our spaces.

Hmmm, I reckon there wasn't enough staff to give every male the 121 support they needed and there was a female carer available. If they hadn't done it this way maybe the swimming trip would have been cancelled. 2 workers is the absolute minimum.
There needs to be a mixed changing option for these types of situations. For example, when a dad wants to take his 8/9 year old daughter swimming - she's just a bit too young to go changing on her own yet she would feel uncomfortable in the men's.
Where's the middle ground?

They gym and the carers need to find a way for these persons with disabilities to access the facilities- if no appropriate room exists then they could look into options such as a member of centre staff ensuring that all women using the changing room are aware of the presence of a man, providing screens and if needed closing the changing room to other users for the 10 minutes needed not just pretending it’s not an issue. I feel for the dignity of the man who had to go into the womens changing room as well. Disabled adults are not adult sized children and he could have found it very distressing and embarrassing especially if he had an sexual response to seeing naked females.

Really? Where?
But double standards are hardly shocking around here.

There are so many reasons why the Carer felt it was more appropriate/ better/necessary to take the man into the Ladies changing rooms
None of them matter.
This was a Man in the womens changing rooms, his needs do not trump the rights of women to expect only women to be in the women’s changing room
It was presumably called the women’s, Ladies changing room or similar - not The Ladies and Men under certain circumstances

YANBU. The woman carer effectively overrode the rights and consent of all the women and girls who were in the changing room. Not sure her reasoning behind this, but she shouldn't have brought a man into a woman's single sex space.

Agree. We tried a few gyms before settling on this one, and I do remember one of them - the David Lloyd - had completely separate family facilities which consisted of a changing room with 7 or 8 large cubicles with playpens etc in each of them. They also wanted £300 a month for a family membership for me, DH and DS.

Why not? How odd!

He was a disabled man, being looked after by a female carer, in a private cubicle. Clearly there were some special circumstances. Can’t we just let this one pass. Is it really such a big deal?!

I totally sympathise with the people commenting on the potential impact t on the disabled man himself though 😕- he deserves his dignity too and not respectful for him if he feels treated like a child. On the other hand, we can’t possibly know if that is the case/ the circumstances here.

Can't believe she didn't even ask you or explain to you. You can't just take a man into womens changing rooms. I'm always more on the side of boys, children, going into the women's changing rooms rather than being sent into the men's alone. But either she went with the whole group into the men's or he waited outside with half the group, he helped the others get changed, then they swapped groups and he helped the rest get changed.

She should wait outside while he changes 2/3 of the men and she supervises the others, then he should bring those out while she changes.

"he deserves his dignity too and not respectful for him if he feels treated like a child. On the other hand, we can’t possibly know if that is the case/ the circumstances here."

It is disrespectful regardless of whether he understands/feels it is.

Can’t we just let this one pass. Is it really such a big deal?!

Yes it is a big deal.
The dignity and privacy of the women and the man was ignored.

Really? Where?
But double standards are hardly shocking around here

The thread about why do men hate women..go to the last couple of pages