Man in women’s changing rooms (NOT trans)

[DelisButAlsoCrime]

I genuinely don’t know if I am being unreasonable here or not.

I went swimming with DS today, and arriving at the same time of us was a mini bus with 8 adults - 7 men, one woman. It was fairly obvious that most of the males were disabled, not quite as severe as Down’s Syndrome but similar. The woman and one of the men were caring for them. All but one of the men went with the male carer to the men’s changing room, but the female and one of the men went, just ahead of me, into the female dressing room. The woman actually held the door open for me but I kind of did a double take and held back. I thought about going to reception and asking them but decided not to. When I went in they had gone into one of the private cubicles. However, they did come out before I was ready and the man came around the corner and was looking quite obviously into the open changing spaces.

AIBU to be uncomfortable with this? I don’t know if there is a disabled changing room at my gym because this would be the obvious answer if he needed to be specifically with the female carer.

That's a rather extreme and homophobic reaction.

I would have a problem with it based on the fact that I do not like what pride now stands for. A lot of gay men and lesbians also hold the same view and no longer what any association with it.

@Trying20

I just... personally, I wouldn't immediately have an issue with either a trans man or trans woman in the mens locker room - but appreciate that I'm coming from a position of privilege there because neither are especially a risk to me.

Well quite.

Is that the answer? All trans people use the male changing room because then there's no risk to non-trans people? I dunno.

I'll tell you what. This is a good example of how MN isn't anti trans. Trans men would be welcomed into single sex spaces by most women because statistically and physically they are far far far less of a thread than male bodied people.

MN isn't anti trans. It's anti risk to women, anti removal of women's dignity and comfort to appease a very, very small minority of male bodied people who wish to insist we prioritise their feelings over our safety and comfort.

I dunno - I've got my views but I don't think I'd walk out of a wedding over them.

Be honest, did many people at all say they would 'walk out of a wedding' over the pride badges?

Because I read the thread and know the answer.

In fact 40% voted they'd have no issue at all and didn't think it was a bad idea.

How about all people use the facilities in line with their biological sex? What is so bloody controversial about that?

Just out of interest, how did you feel about the change of flag?

Whatever your reasons, can't say I blame you.

No, because then you have a sexually aware woman in the men's changing room which presents the same issue only reversed.

@Trying20

I'll be honest; I'm still not sure about your "we just know" and instinct thing because I once went on a date with a trans bloke (see previously alluded to story) and he had a better beard than I could ever hope to grow (I've always struggled, to be honest) - but if you're saying that's definite and you're 100% with it, I'll believe it.

I would say that only in an astonishingly small number of cases would a woman get the original natal sex wrong.

I appreciate you saying you believe us by the way, I'm assuming you're saying it in good faith.

It really is true.

No she doesn’t thanks.

Yanbu op.
Single sex spaces should be just that and the facilities are at fault for not finding the solution. The equality act isn't a top trumps game.

Incidentally, a group of parents in my village in the seventies used a high functioning downs add man as cheap childcare. He raped two boys and abused several more before one spoke out.

That's what happens when you treat some men as harmless or like a sacred cast.

And yes I am aware he had his career with him. Doesn't change the fact that he shouldn't be in there.

Just ask the fact that if I take my husband in, whose not a sex offender, it would be inappropriate.

If they come to swim at a set time each week, perhaps think about swimming at another time.

Yes, multiple elderly women should need to change their routines and be inconvenienced rather than one male bodied person being told they need to use the private women's changing room rather than the communal single sex women's changing room 🙄

Women are OK with women (however they present) using women's spaces. The thing is many women don't 'present as women' if that means wearing red lipstick and skirts. The vast majority of women in the last public toilet I used were wearing jeans and t-shirts and no makeup. I didn't think they were men.

Why do you think there were 106 more incidents in unisex facilities than in single sex ones?

Unisex facilities made up less than half of provisions at the time. Do you think increasing unisex facilities would result in an increase or decrease in incidents?

What strikes me about the arguments FOR men being allowed to use the Women's changing rooms on here is that all these potential scenarios are to be solved by Women. Why is the fact that there may not be an appropriate changing area for this or any other Male become a issue for women? Why are Men not coming up with a solution on how to best accommodate this or any other Man?
A Man needs to find somewhere to change - how is this anything to do with women?

And by solution I don’t mean handing the issue over to women to deal with.

It's always our problem to solve.

Like the man who wants to use women's toilets to change his twin daughters because the men's loos are too disgusting a few weeks ago.

Men are responsible for the vast majority of the planning, architecture, and public realm design.

But they never seem to come up with solutions to these issues. I suspect because it's much easier to just trample over women's boundaries when it suits them

Simonjt

Why do you think its not OK for the female carer to take her client in the male changingroom?

Because she isn’t a man, if it were fine for her to be in the mens, it is also fine for him to be in the womens.

Because she isn’t a man, if it were fine for her to be in the mens, it is also fine for him to be in the womens.

I agree with you it's just shocking how many believe any adult male is entitled to enter women's spaces but not the other way around.