To wonder why men hate women so much?

[YouAreNotBatman]

Violence againt women, sexual harrasment.

Controlling women bodies.

Women’s sexuality: frigid prude if you don’t want sex, slut if you.

Porn, sex ”work”.

All the MRA’s, mgtow, incels etc.

Even historically speaking they have no reason to be angry at women, women never had any power, mostly tried to accommodate to men’s demand/ wants, I think it still goes on.

Many women still tip toe the line to placate men.

What reason do they have to be so angry at women?

Many women allow themselves to get treated poorly by not speaking up or walking away from a bad relationship

many many many woman go after the bad boys. They like the excitement. Then with a straight face act shocked when he fucks them over

• *by this point alot of the decent men have been taken and all that's left are aesholes and the cycle continues

I don’t think men hate women on the whole. But there are a lot of abusers or men who commit sex crime among them, risky criminality seems to come with increased testosterone. But it’s not like men don’t also hurt other men at a exceptional rate compared to women on women. I think the fact it’s sex crime with women comes with the fact men are attracted to women (mostly), but they also assault other men without the sex even more (mostly).

I do think men may have some inbuilt (or practical?) desire to control women in some ways.

Also some both for reasonable and unreasonable reasons resent aspects of our gender equal world and probably are angry at women over it. I don’t think women pushing into all of mens spaces has helped - in my opinion it’s a mistake to not let men have anything culturally theirs and will only lead to more anger and polarisation.

In some ways even though womens advancement at work has been marvellous for women it relies on men providing for women at work, continually giving women spaces in what they (men) make or control over it (through gender places on boards etc). I think men resent that. In some ways womens advancement has come about in a quite gendered way, with men still forced to play the provider role and provide women with the place they want, just at work not at home. It’s like men and women are in a shotgun marriage in the working world and it’s from that that women equality is provided by men - and if men and women weren’t tethered together by law it would all fall apart.

@NightmareSlashDelightful

Its a fallacy that “patriarchy” came about through Abrahamic religion or that things were different before.

Ancient Rome was Pagan and Christian and it was plenty Patriachal before Christianity - so was Ancient Greece.

In many ways Christianity has its own female figures too - Mary, Angels, Mary Magdalene etc.
The Pagan religions all centered male gods like Zeus or Thor or whoever - most main female gods were their wives - the only really independent females in mythology were usually terrible monsters in feminine form that were slayed.

Christianity was actually far more popular with women than men at first in Ancient Rome. In many ways it had more to offer them, as your glory in the afterlife wasn’t dependant on being some violent hero.

I think a huge amount of it is the gatekeeper to sex thing that has been mentioned before and insecurity about inadequacy or failure. But I don’t think it’s as simple as just sex in itself. But I think sex is a sort of symbol for so much to men with a huge amount tangled in it.

You see it a lot in these incel/reactionary spaces that there is this massive fear of what partners women will choose if they have total freedom of choice. The fear of course being that they will “unfairly” be left unchosen.

Similarly, being accepted as a sexual partner gets really tied up in being accepted as a person for a lot of men (and not just men for sure!). Success as a capital-m Man is massively tied in with sexual success. All over media and everywhere they are shown that successful men, the kind of men you want to emulate, are sexually successful. usually finding partners easily. Or even worse the “gets the girl” trope in stories and movies and games where success in some task is rewarded with success in intimacy.

And for most men, the only access to emotional intimacy and security they have in any kind of relationship is in a sexually intimate one. You see this a lot in those kinds of men who use their girlfriends and wives as therapists. They just have no other outlet (at least that they would allow themselves to use without fearing shame or rejection).

There is just so much bundled in with sexual relationships in terms of self-worth and security and feelings of adequacy. Then you couple that with the fear of womens freedom leading them to being denied access to all this.

I think the desire for control is really much more about a deep fear and insecurity

It’s highly sexist to view work as men’s spaces to start with. How did they become ‘men’s spaces’ exactly @Suetodo88 ??

Women have always worked, always, right through from gathering food as hunter gatherers to farming it, to becoming mill, mine and factory workers in the industrial revolution. Obviously women’s work is less valuable (sarcasm alert) - because women do it, yet it tends to be some of the most important sort of work around.

Work only became ‘mens spaces’ when they pushed us out of them. As they do, as big males do throughout the animal kingdom, when resources are scarce and need to be fought over - specifically post-WW2 and post about 2000 in Britain.

Of course men are angry had they been born a few generations ago they were entitled to a woman free workplace where they could spend all day with the lads and then come home to tea on the table, no childcare responsibility and a woman so grateful he was there and bringing in money that he could hit her into line, go out when he wanted, have the sex he was entitled to and have sex with any other woman he wanted with no accountability. So many Intel types feel entitled to that instead of going to work for a female boss and then home to a woman who expects him to do domestic labour and sometimes earns more than him and wont put up with philandering.

Tough shit modern generation men, women have put up with enough and we wont be going back.

I really believe we’re fundamentally different - not just socialised different (if that were true we would be the only species in all the animal kingdom) and at some point equality is just going to blow up because of it.

The reality is the threat of male violence is the basis of all law, so whoever controls that controls the law and the society. Naturally men are better situated to do that as they know what they want better than women who will push for what they want more do. The risk is always that whatever “equality” is achieved it polarises men and women to the point men turn on “equal” society and then it’s totally fucked.

I think that many men have harboured resentment at women’s freedom

I was having a conversation with a friend about this just recently. We were discussing women's rights and progression, and how we don't think there's been as much improvement as society would like us to believe.

I think many men are extremely resentful that women have more freedom now. Many of them probably even consciously believe they're pro women's rights, but deep down it pisses them off that they have less power now. Sexism is far from dead, it's just significantly more covert.

It especially pisses men off that women are increasingly embracing the choice to be single. We've still a way to go in that regard, but we've progressed a lot when you consider that not too long ago it was considered the ultimate shame for a woman to be a "spinster". This relates back to sex, and how men ultimately resent us having something they want.

Perhaps I'm a cynic but I don't believe it's possible for us to truly reach a place of equality between men and women, because men will always resent women for being equals. The more freedoms we have, the more resent they harbour.

Because men have always had the power, women have been "property" (in most cultures and religions. Yes you can find some matriarchal tribes here and there, but for the most part women have been the lower caste). I don't think it's about sex that much, but about power and hierarchy.

And for the past 100 years women have had the temerity to want to be equal. A lot of men don't like the fact that women are tyring to climb out of their boxes. Patriarchal culture, propagated by both men and women, diminish women's accomplishments - if you have a good career, but no children/husband, then you are nothing. Hence women try to latch on to bad relationships for the societal validation and tolerate a lot of nonsense just to have that.

@ParsleySageRosemary

Im talking more about modern work not caveman days. Like if some man and his friends create a company then it’s their space right? That seems fair. But now they’re kind of forced to hire a woman on the board or whatever and give up control of their own creation because a woman asks for it.

I don’t know I think women who want those things need to develop more female centric workplaces. Not just for mens sake but also because if men ever refuse them those places then they won’t have anything of their own.

I was once at my daughters swimming lesson and a wee boy wouldn't jump in his mother shouted for god sake stop being such a girl. I merely pointed out the girls were jumping in.
Men are taught for birth by women they are better than us.
My sil bought her daughter a toy kitchen a hoover and a shovel the boys got dinosaurs and tool kits

I was a DV advisor for many years and I used to mull over this ad infinitum. My conclusion had to do with beauty.

I thought men thought their girlfriends were so beautiful, so pure and untouched, and if they ever questioned him or acted sexually, they offended his sense of what they were and he would lose respect for them.

I also factored in mothering. As in, maybe his mother was a survivor of trauma and too wrapped up in that to mother him really well, and he lost respect for her while deeply craving her.

All set to a background of us all being brought up within patriarchy and all of us using or abusing or wanting to overthrow it.

This is what we're up against. And this is from a woman (presumably). This and the follow up comment about women liking 'bad boys'. Why are they the problem? The responsible party? Why aren't the 'bad boys' (ridiculous term), they ones that are getting criticism?

If that's what women think of other women then just imagine what men think of them. Of course it's 'not all men' but it's enough of them and it's too many.

Im talking more about modern work not caveman days. Like if some man and his friends create a company then it’s their space right? That seems fair. But now they’re kind of forced to hire a woman on the board or whatever and give up control of their own creation because a woman asks for it.

what are you talking about?? This is complete nonsense. I work in investing in companies and I have literally never seen this.

@Suetodo88 they probably dont want a woman on the board. But they would fall over themselves to hire a pretty young dolly bird on reception to draw in male clients.

I feel like it's a myth that so many women are out there going after bad boys. Sure some women like bad boys, but for the most part it's a victim blaming mentality.

Most women on here who have been in abusive relationships will tell you their abusive partner was the sweetest, kindest, most considerate and caring person they'd ever met before he turned abusive. They didn't "go after the bad boys". 🙄

I honestly think a lot of men just don't see women as 'real' humans. They see themselves as the default human and women as a weaker, more emotional subset of the species who are there to service them, whether domestically, emotionally or sexually.

Rather like how the nobility used to think they were a 'better' human than the peasantry, god had made them nobility and therefore they were entitled to more, better, and to treat the peasants as lesser because their birth entitled them to that.

We have been bought up in societies that are hierarchically based. Even now when we have a parliament that should represent all the people its mostly made up of overgrown public school boys who have too much money and think they are above us all.

So when men, who have traditionally sat higher up in that hierarchy in many cases than women, start having to let women in it pisses them off. Because if the hierarchy becomes linear, who do they shit on?

Absolutely not all men, but too many. And because many of them can't see the benefits of treating the 'subspecies' that is women as equal, they don't. Instead they call us nags, or they turn into incels, or MRA's, or they complain women have it better and easier than them.

Its depressing. The only way to stop it is to bring up the next generation better, but it insidious, in education, in socialisation, in television, in porn, in music, in every aspect of culture.

The sex thing doesn't explain why many gay men are misogynistic

I read something many years ago that made sense to me, so I hope I can manage to explain it well.

Most babies are looked after by their mums or a female primary care provider. Babies don’t understand “other”, they think the mother is an extension of themselves with the same thought, feelings and beliefs.

As they grow to toddlers they begin to understand, but still that person is their whole world. Little girls understand that they will grow up and become (like) their mothers. But little boys have to learn they are not their mothers. So they start to look to male role models and try to slough off their ‘femaleness’.

They often do this by becoming MORE boy and increasing the difference. This is why boys go through a period when in primary school of often being anti girl ie boys won’t let girls join in with them when playing.

Girls don’t tend to be like this as much and will incorporate boys into their play (if he want to and cooperates with them) It’s why a lots of mainstream books and films for children usually had a boy as the protagonist. It was well known the boys wouldn’t read/watch something if the hero was a girl, girls don’t mind if the hero is a boy. Fortunately this has changed in recent years (eg Moana), so I’m really thinking back a few decades.

So there we have a bunch of boys revelling in their maleness and all things not girly or sissy. And then puberty kicks in, and suddenly they want/need/desire girls for sex, and intimacy. I wonder if in some unconscious way it reminds them of their need for their mothers and being under the control of a woman.

So immature men don’t want to be ‘pussy whipped’ or under her thumb.

I know things have moved on an awful lot. There is more legal equality for women than there used to be, more men are involved in child care, men are more able to express themselves and being gay is more easily accepted. But I think it explains some homophobia, and demeaning of women especially by young men.

I don’t know if anyone would agree with this, but I think it explains some of the why men hate women question.

Obviously this explanation didn’t include the rise of available online hardcore pornography and the objectification of womens bodies.

This is literally a thing that is not happening.

Men who form companies are not forced to hire women onto their boards.

Some companies will look at their culture and structure and realise that they are too white, too male, too middle class and try to do something to promote diversity. And that's good because studies show that companies that are more diverse usually are more creative and have more ideas, which means a company is likely to me successful, resilient and long lasting,

But no one is out there forcing companies to promote women to board level when they don't want to.

Maybe if there were there wouldn't be more male CEO's named Andrew than female CEO's in total in Australia.

I'll get flamed for this but I think it boils down to what society allows them to do

If no woman touched an incel or MRA with a barge pole that type of thinning would soon die out.

Just look at the societal change around men beating their wives.

Yes some still do but it used to be almost the norm decades ago. Now I don't know one married woman who has ever been harmed by her OH/DH/BF

Just look at the threads on here, the absolute shit some women put up with. If we didn't put up with it, men would soon learn to get X you do Y.

But unfortunately there are many women with such low self worth they accept some really awful behaviour and therefore it continues, through the generations.

I think they hate the women who threaten them materially, as they see it. Also the women who reject them, and the women who they see as beneath them.

Good points, and really interesting.

I also can’t imagine that women in pre-Christian times were treated idyllically. Far from it I imagine.

M

I don't think this is true however if you believe it to be I suggest you focus on doing a better job at raising your sons