To wonder why men hate women so much?

[YouAreNotBatman]

Violence againt women, sexual harrasment.

Controlling women bodies.

Women’s sexuality: frigid prude if you don’t want sex, slut if you.

Porn, sex ”work”.

All the MRA’s, mgtow, incels etc.

Even historically speaking they have no reason to be angry at women, women never had any power, mostly tried to accommodate to men’s demand/ wants, I think it still goes on.

Many women still tip toe the line to placate men.

What reason do they have to be so angry at women?

but very wasted on the poster, who interchanges between names. Good for you, on your career - YOU have earned it 😀

Thank you :)

I know I shouldn't bother responding but I'm invested now!

@brookstar

I’m afraid you haven’t understood my post at all as it refers to your academic field. I am not saying you had to invent a new field of work, you could have gone into a pre existing one and made your way in it (although you wouldn’t have been entitled to a share of control over a company in that field based on your sex if the men who made the company didn’t want it).

What I’m saying is your field of study is all about how to get more women into work and “higher up” at work. If you and any of the women you work with had of actually gone into any of the areas your trying to push more women into then there would be more women in those areas (especially if they did something original within them). But you have not, instead you were inclined to be in a field which studied how to get more women into those areas at work. You see the problem, rather than doing what you want done, your all about working out how to force men to give other women what you want done. Why would you even care if your not interested yourself?

And I’m not at all surprised your field is female dominated I would have guessed that so that’s not the gotcha point you though it was. I expect it because they’re probably also inclined to thinking about how they can get men to give women jobs and they’ve actually taken this to the level of creating a field of study around it. Men would just go out and try to do the jobs and if they couldn’t get them create their own space.

It’s actually funny. You are in an original field created by women most likely, but the irony being that field is all about working out how to get men to give women more at work, rather than actually one which produces something original. Ironically the area of originality you work in has come to be out of an instinct to try to get men to give some women more. Because that rather than actually doing original work is what the women who go into it are passionate about.

That’s why it exist because of men - because it is a reaction to what they have at work that you feel women don’t have and it’s purpose is working out how to force them to give up “womens share” as you see it. It exists to try to get more women attached to men through work.

I didn’t mean that you were actually propped up by men in that particular field of academia, rather that the field exists solely to use men better.

Somewhere out there there is probably a woman teaching other women how to be a better gold diggers. I’m sorry but to me your field of academic work in trying to get more women into work in male companies is in the same line as that - your all about how you can get more women attached to men at work, when really you should be either encouraging them to do their own thing or better yet doing it yourself.

I’m sorry hun, don’t take offense, but to me your academic work is the same as running an academy for gold diggers. Your just encouraging them to do their gold digging at work rather than at home.

I wish you the best though and I’m sorry that we can’t find common ground. Even if we disagree everyone should be kind. If you think good thoughts they will shine out your face like sunbeams and you’ll always look lovely.😚

I’m proud of my family and I don’t care what anyone says. Me and my husband both play a very important role and a happy family is a wonderful achievement. Better than anything in the world.

(although you wouldn’t have been entitled to a share of control over a company in that field based on your sex if the men who made the company didn’t want it).

Sure, because no woman ever came into control of a company if men were previously present. That's a fact that is.
Or a moral imperative or something, I'm never too sure is SueToDo is discussing what she reckons happens in the real world, or if it's an idealised model she's hoping might exist one day.

Yeah, never mind the "haters" SueThePersistentNameChange.
They are not your problem.

Your problem is you are not on the same planet as everyone else, & probably need to put in an urgent call to mission control to bring you back home to Planet Facts & Reality.

It's such a tragedy that women who work can't play an important role in their family or achieve happiness with their partners & kids innit @Sue34ProudMumIgnoretheHaters?

And I’m not at all surprised your field is female dominated I would have guessed that so that’s not the gotcha point you though it was. I expect it because they’re probably also inclined to thinking about how they can get men to give women jobs and they’ve actually taken this to the level of creating a field of study around it. Men would just go out and try to do the jobs and if they couldn’t get them create their own space.
😂😂😂

You reckon?
Despite PP having already told you that she also recruits men?

I’m afraid you haven’t understood my post at all as it refers to your academic field
But you don't know what my academic field is......

What I’m saying is your field of study is all about how to get more women into work and “higher up” at work.

No it isn't.

If you and any of the women you work with had of actually gone into any of the areas your trying to push more women into then there would be more women in those areas (especially if they did something original within them).

I thought we weren't allowed to do this? Didn't you say this was leeching behaviour?

But you have not, instead you were inclined to be in a field which studied how to get more women into those areas at work.
One of my areas of study is women's career development. You have no idea what else I do in my job.

You see the problem, rather than doing what you want done, your all about working out how to force men to give other women what you want done. Why would you even care if your not interested yourself?

Again, that's not what I do. Not even close.

And I’m not at all surprised your field is female dominated
But you don't know what my field is.....why don't you tell me what you think I teach?

I would have guessed that so that’s not the gotcha point you though it was. I expect it because they’re probably also inclined to thinking about how they can get men to give women jobs and they’ve actually taken this to the level of creating a field of study around it. Men would just go out and try to do the jobs and if they couldn’t get them create their own space.

This isn't what I do. It isn't what anyone does.....you've just made this up.

It’s actually funny. You are in an original field created by women most likely, but the irony being that field is all about working out how to get men to give women more at work, rather than actually one which produces something original.

It's actually funny how you have completely made up what I do for a living. I DON'T DO THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ironically the area of originality you work in has come to be out of an instinct to try to get men to give some women more. Because that rather than actually doing original work is what the women who go into it are passionate about.
That’s why it exist because of men - because it is a reaction to what they have at work that you feel women don’t have and it’s purpose is working out how to force them to give up “womens share” as you see it. It exists to try to get more women attached to men through work.

What are you talking about. Are you drunk?

I didn’t mean that you were actually propped up by men in that particular field of academia, rather that the field exists solely to use men better.
Somewhere out there there is probably a woman teaching other women how to be a better gold diggers. I’m sorry but to me your field of academic work in trying to get more women into work in male companies is in the same line as that - your all about how you can get more women attached to men at work, when really you should be either encouraging them to do their own thing or better yet doing it yourself.

Again, WTF are you talking abut.

I’m sorry hun, don’t take offense, but to me your academic work is the same as running an academy for gold diggers. Your just encouraging them to do their gold digging at work rather than at home.

Fuck off hun That is offensive and you know it.
How is being paid to do a job gold digging?
AND I DON'T DO ANY OF WHAT YOU HAVE DESCRIBED!!
You're just making shit up now.

I wish you the best though and I’m sorry that we can’t find common ground. Even if we disagree everyone should be kind. If you think good thoughts they will shine out your face like sunbeams and you’ll always look lovely.😚

You need to take your own advice. See your comments above.

I’m sorry but to me your field of academic work in trying to get more women into work in male companies is in the same line as that - your all about how you can get more women attached to men at work, when really you should be either encouraging them to do their own thing or better yet doing it yourself.

I have rarely seen such muddled thinking promoted so earnestly.
Enlighten us all SueToDO -

1. what is a "male company"?
2. what the hell do you mean by women being "attached" to men at work?
3. When a man joins a female-founded & female-led company, is he just looking to "attach" himself to a woman - the sly dog?!

I’m sorry hun, don’t take offense, but to me your academic work is the same as running an academy for gold diggers. Your just encouraging them to do their gold digging at work rather than at home.

I'm sorry hun, don't take offence, but in your own words you have just posited that your choice to be a SAHM means you are just gold-digging at home.

My mum is my role model. She worked all her life and we had a lovely childhood - perhaps because my dad pulled his weight when he was here too. She taught me what to expect from a husband and I think that’s why I have very little tolerance for some men.

I understand that some people work in unpleasant jobs because they have to but I don’t think it’s unusual for people to enjoy what they do. I don’t have to work, I could still be home if I chose but I absolutely love my job - totally agree that others who are qualified could do the job just as well as me but I’m pretty good at it. I spent 3 years becoming qualified to do this whilst also raising my lovely dc so while I understand it wouldn’t be a big deal to you, I absolutely do feel like I have achieved something when my work is recognised. My job is interesting, fulfilling, fits in with my family where I need it to and is certainly not drudgery, not in the way that wiping kids bums and noses all day is - and I’m not saying that to be antagonistic because I see the value in that. I spent 10 years doing all of that stuff with no complaints and no regrets but if we’re comparing then it absolutely was drudgery. My dh is also in a role that he loves and is hugely successful in - he’s one of my role models too.

My dc are happy, loved and they are fantastic kids. But as proud as I am of them, that’s not my achievement, it’s all on them. My work and my hobbies and my education - that’s all mine. When I say that raising a family is not an achievement and anyone can do it what I mean is that many people raise happy, well adjusted kids and go out to work as well. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Apologies if the wording bothered you, it wasn’t meant to, but I assume that your dh does in fact ‘earn enough to foot the bill’ or how are you managing to be at home. My dh’s salary is what enabled me to stay home - without it I would have had no option but to work. That is a privilege that gives us choices that others don’t have. My dh certainly benefitted from me being a sahm and if that has allowed your DH ‘to have a family life they couldn’t otherwise’ and makes your life meaningful then that’s great - it’s the right thing for your family. But it really doesn’t make an iota of difference to anyone outside your home.

Nice Dahl quote though @Sue34ProudMumIgnoretheHaters
I also like this one:
“A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men.”
And of course women.

You have been so very entertaining. Good luck relocating on Planet Earth when your spaceship comes back for you.

Despite PP having already told you that she also recruits men?

Exactly!! This year about a third of my students were male.
I'd love more as a diverse cohort only brings benefits as far as I'm concerned.

BUT THOSE MEN ARE LEECHING OFF YOU & STEALING YOUR CREATIVE CONTROL @brookstar.
Have you learned NOTHING from this thread? 😂

But nobody has told you that you shouldn't be proud of your family.

People choose to do things in a way that suits them and their family. We have chosen to both work - it works well for us. My choices don't undermine your choices

@brookstar

My choices don't undermine your choices

Ultimately I think this is why sahms get so annoyed abd defensive. Why they start whining about not being valued.

Because wms kind of do under mine their choice.

If wm can achieve the same outcomes as sahms it kind if begs the question as to what the point of a sahm is.

Other than allowing men to progress their careers

Haha I'd like to see them try!!

It's funny though, a couple of years ago I recruited a male academic to join my team. He's really well known in the sector and has a much higher profile than me. I actively sought him out and essentially got him the job. He was at pains to reassure me that he had no desire to take over my course and he was ( and still is) happy for me to use his name to promote the course and my career. So I guess Sue is right, I am leeching off a man to progress ........mind blown!

I really do object to the gold digger comment though. I bloody well earn every penny of my salary!

Somewhere out there there is probably a woman teaching other women how to be a better gold diggers. I’m sorry but to me your field of academic work in trying to get more women into work in male companies is in the same line as that - your all about how you can get more women attached to men at work, when really you should be either encouraging them to do their own thing or better yet doing it yourself.

This is both offensive and breathtakingly stupid.

So @brookstar is a gold-digger because she works in an academic field which in part deals with looking at the advancements of women in the field of work. And you are, wait for it... supported FT by a man. I genuinely don't understand how you can square that circle in your own head.

I take a laissez faire pproach to the stuff which is posted by women who are opposed to women's advancements as they always undermine their own arguments and you have indeed done this beautifully with a slew of completely illogical comments which don't stand up to scrutiny.

But your comments to @brookstar are downright offensive, particularly in the light of what she has revealed about her family background and I think you owe her an apology.

sorry for the avoidance of doubt that was directed at @Sue34ProudMumIgnoretheHaters or whatever you are calling yourself. I think you should apologise to @brookstar

You're perfectly entitled to hoist yourself on your own petard with your bizarre and surrendered logic but its not cool to insult other posters like that.

@Thepeopleversuswork

I just call em like I see em. Her line of academia is by her own admission (at least in part) dedicated to getting women into jobs they’re not currently doing at a rate as great as men - she and those like her could have taken up those jobs themselves if they’re so interested. But she’s not, she was inclined to advocate for men to give other women more of those jobs.

That is why I said it was like a gold diggers academy but for working women, because it’s all about teaching women how to attach themselves to already existing success men have.

As such that field of academia is itself reliant on men, not because a man created or runs it but because it sprang into existence for the purpose of working out ways that women could benifet from being attached to what men make. So it’s like some ladies back in the day teaching women how to get rich husbands and so on, they themselves may not be the ones gold digging, but their existence is dependant on teaching other women to. So they are reliant on men in a way and also reliant on women not actually doing things for themselves independently - because if they did that field of academia would go away.

Its not personal it’s just about that type of academic thing. She shouldn’t take offense.
I wish her well.

But I won’t put up with any hate on my family we live very well and all play a vital part in that. I’m proud of what I’ve done as a mum, I’m sorry that other women have let some people devalue that in their eyes to the point they don’t view that as an achievement if it’s done well.

@DandyLandy for PM! Actively tax men whose partners don't go back to work would soon change their minds about encouraging women to stay at home to make their lives easier for them etc. 😉

@Sue34ProudMumIgnoretheHaters

I'm not going to go around the houses with you again on your ideas about work being the preserve of men. Your grasp of how the world of work operates is breathtakingly limited but you can believe what you want. It's a free society.

But you can't have it both ways. You can't both say you "won't put up with any hate on your family" (no one has hated on your family) and in the same breath say that working women are "gold-diggers" and be insulting to another poster who has already revealed that she has a highly personal reason for being professionally interested in supporting women's financial independence.

How do you seriously expect people to "value" what you do for your family if you are lashing out at other women who do something which you know precisely nothing about for a living to support their families?

I wish you the best though and I’m sorry that we can’t find common ground. Even if we disagree everyone should be kind. If you think good thoughts they will shine out your face like sunbeams and you’ll always look lovely.

You have literally littered this thread with hateful comments pulling working women down @Sue34ProudMumIgnoretheHaters or whatever you are currently called.

You better be careful in case that hate starts reflecting out of your face and it turns out your husband is one of those who values pretty over everything else.

I value independence and making my own way in the world over sunbeams coming out of my face. Which means if my DH ever leaves me I won't be one of the many wives on the relationship board scratting around for pennies after their DH leaves them and they have no leverage and no income.

I feel sorry for them, and I hope it doesn't happen to you, but the reality is you are arguing that all women should put themselves at the mercy of men no matter how abusive or controlling some of those men might be. Its frightening how much you must hate your own sex or be subjugated to the opposite sex to be advocating for this so strongly.

So yeah, who cares if I 'look lovely', my face isn't my fortune as it is yours, my brain, and my ability, is worth far more.

It still terrifies me that you say you have a daughter (once though, you mention your sons far more frequently unsurprisingly) I hope she has some strong role models (sorry gold diggers) in her life.

I just call em like I see em.
No, you make stuff up.

Her line of academia is by her own admission (at least in part) dedicated to getting women into jobs they’re not currently doing at a rate as great as men

Part of my job is to research. One area I happen to research is women's career development. I happen to look at all areas of inequality. DO you have an issue with the research I do on sexuality? on race? on social class?

she and those like her could have taken up those jobs themselves if they’re so interested.

I don't understand the point you are trying to make here. Part of my job is to look at how and why people male particular career and education decisions. Why can't i be interested in why there are fewer female engineers? I don't need to be interested in becoming an engineer for that to interest me.

But she’s not, she was inclined to advocate for men to give other women more of those jobs.

Again, that's not what I do. Your comprehension skills need some serious work.

That is why I said it was like a gold diggers academy but for working women, because it’s all about teaching women how to attach themselves to already existing success men have.

No it's not. I'm not running some dystopian finishing school. THIS ISN'T HAPPENING!!!!!

I run a university course that trains people to do a particular job - a very specific job, a job that both men and women do. I'm not training women to go into male dominated professions. My students aren't marching into work places and demanding men give them their jobs. They all leave my course and go and do the same job.

As such that field of academia is itself reliant on men, not because a man created or runs it but because it sprang into existence for the purpose of working out ways that women could benifet from being attached to what men make
Again, this is something you have made up.

So it’s like some ladies back in the day teaching women how to get rich husbands and so on, they themselves may not be the ones gold digging, but their existence is dependant on teaching other women to

It's not like this at all. You've made this up.

So they are reliant on men in a way and also reliant on women not actually doing things for themselves independently - because if they did that field of academia would go away.
You don't even know what my field of academia is. How do you know it will just go away? It's been around for a very long time.....some of the main contributors to the sector are male.

Its not personal it’s just about that type of academic thing. She shouldn’t take offense.

Of course it's personal! This is my life!

I wish her well.
But I won’t put up with any hate on my family we live very well and all play a vital part in that. I’m proud of what I’ve done as a mum, I’m sorry that other women have let some people devalue that in their eyes to the point they don’t view that as an achievement if it’s done well.

You keep saying this but nobody has devalued your role as a mum.

But I won’t put up with any hate on my family

Nobody has given you any hate on your family you wally. Not a single PP has denigrated your family or your choice to SAHM.

This is just yet another example of you making things up & being illogical @Sue34ProudMumIgnoretheHaters

I’m sorry but I’ve proven my point and said all I have to say. Of course people with a vested interest in seeing men provide for them or other women in the working world aren’t inclined to take what I’ve said on board, I expect that. History and nature agrees with me and you all shouldn’t be so ashamed of what someone sneeringly called “womens work”. That’s just spitting on every other woman throughout history to big yourselves up (including me).

I’ll leave this here and not comment again as people are too emotionally invested in this subject to see what they’re doing for what it is and I can see I’ve upset some people and I don’t know how vulnerable people are to what I see as a disagreement and discussion so I’ll stop.

Good luck to you all and again it’s nothing at all personal, No need for the blow fuses. I hope you can be satisfied with what you all have and have happy lives.😚