To wonder why men hate women so much?

[YouAreNotBatman]

Violence againt women, sexual harrasment.

Controlling women bodies.

Women’s sexuality: frigid prude if you don’t want sex, slut if you.

Porn, sex ”work”.

All the MRA’s, mgtow, incels etc.

Even historically speaking they have no reason to be angry at women, women never had any power, mostly tried to accommodate to men’s demand/ wants, I think it still goes on.

Many women still tip toe the line to placate men.

What reason do they have to be so angry at women?

97% of women between 18-25 have been sexually harassed. Either that's some sexual harassers pulling in a lot of overtime or no actually its not a minority.

And it's not a minority of men committing rape and murder..... either a minority are VERY busy or it's more than you think.

I don’t think it’s hate I think it’s a genuinely sheer lack of respect.

’enough’ don’t view us as humans on their level. We are child readers, home makers and vaginas. We are worthy in our own right when we belong to them (wives, mothers, daughters) but out of that remit we are ultimately dispensable.

Teach your sons how to behave and teach your daughters their worth. It’s all we can do.

@mycatisannoying How the hell do you know? Do you think men are happily announcing that they're misogynistic to every woman they know and admitting to rape when telling you what they did at the weekend?
Of course not. Many rapists don't use the word rape to describe sex they think they had

@mycatisannoying

It doesn’t work both ways.

I know some here think there are ”man haters” on Amn, but mostly I’ve seen women talking about their negative experiences with men or maybe state they don’t want another male partner anymore, and this seems to be deemed as hating men.

Women have no power over men, except saying no (dating, having sex, having children) but even that men can use their power to get and they have shamed women who don’t fall in line.

Men want to take away / not give women human rights.
They don’t seem to view women as actual human beings, yet they are so angry at women.
Even more so if they don’t get what they want from women (sex,servant, vessel to bore their offspring and massage their egos)

Women mostly seem to more or less a fair partner (if relationship is something they want), if they don’t find one, they peacefully focus on other things in life.
Strange, huh?

A lot of them want to be dominant, to have sex on demand, and it pisses them off that they can't.

Modern life doesn't help in that we don't need anyone to drive us, chop wood, plough fields or fight sabre tooth tigers. Mechanisation has taken away a lot of the need for physical strength. Women can earn their own money, hire someone to paint the house, cut the lawn etc. And because many women are more academic and more organised, often they can do it better than men. Society allows for women to have children without being married so no need for a husband to have a family.

Which leaves men in a pretty weak bargaining position ....... hence resentment and the Incel movement.

@Topgub

I mean if they start a workplace or whatever I don’t think it automatically follows that women are owed positions of control on the board etc.
Or anything - for example male sports leagues often support womens leagues etc or movies men have liked are pushed to center women more.

I think it’s important that men be allowed cultural space to be themselves (and they are different) otherwise they will start to resent always feeling that women feel “owed” a slice of whatever they do.

I think true equality is a myth because we will never naturally just achieve an exact equal amount in all areas. We are different. I don’t even think it’s a good aim that trying for will lead to a stable society. If anything making a bunch of men pissed off is likely to destabilise society till it breaks.

Can you please give me one example of where men have started a company and then have been forced to give a woman a position on a board? Just one.

And out of interest what level of inequality are women supposed to accept to ensure the poor men aren't too pissed off?

Hmm quite a bit of victim blaming going on here.

Not very long ago Christianity (and similar systems in other places) heavily dominated society. Two of Christianity's main women are the Virgin Mary and Eve. Eve, the temptress, caused the fall of paradise. The Virgin Mary who produced Christ, but unsullied by sex. And God himself is is apparently a man type of supreme being, who created all of this, gave Mary Jesus Christ, his son, another man.

As an atheist, I think that the story of the bible was written by a team of, from what I can see, misogynist, fearful, guilty men.

And as Christianity was so prevalent in society, men have felt resentful that they've lost control. Losing their (paid) jobs to women, women now have the power to vote, can divorce their husbands, can call forced marital sex rape etc. It much suited many men to live according to Christian values. Still does in large parts of the western world.

Also male dominated society was able to succeed when women were often having many, many children, often leading to ill health, and relatively frequent death in child birth.

I mean if they start a workplace or whatever I don’t think it automatically follows that women are owed positions of control on the board etc.

But this doesn't happen.
Women want to be given opportunities based on merit instead of bring discriminated because of their sex.

That’s like domestic violence on a global scale! Women mustn’t demand too much, or piss too many men off, because society will break down. We need to keep them comfy in their patriarchal status quo or
we will be responsible for the breakdown (which they will cause because they no longer have service women who meet their needs with no legitimate requirements of reciprocity or respect. Basically, they will have to put effort into their relationships, if they want their families to put time and energy into them. They aren’t owed free it by virtue of Being A Man)

That is absolutely victim blaming while simultaneously holding women responsible for men’s behaviour in a societal level.

Of course society will change if women demand equality. It will stop being a fucking patriarchy built primarily for the ease and comfort of men. Of course some men will resent enjoying less ease, power, status, money and control. Especially since the argument ‘you’ve had it good for 2000 years’ isn’t much comfort to them personally. It still the right thing to do. Disenfranchised men will just have to suck it up.

’enough’ don’t view us as humans on their level. We are child readers, home makers and vaginas. We are worthy in our own right when we belong to them (wives, mothers, daughters) but out of that remit we are ultimately dispensable.

Agree with this. I think the ones that genuinely hate us are in the minority (though its not a tiny minority).

I think most men just really struggle to see us as equals when they are in intimate relationships with us.

I think most men have a subconscious template in their heads for how a woman should be when you are in an intimate relationship with her and it includes various qualities (sexy, attractive, kind) and tasks (cooking, cleaning, looking after children, organising social stuff). Once you are in a settled relationship most of them can't easily compute that you can exist outside of that paradigm.

I've noticed in several of my LTRs that the men I was with got progressively less interested in me, the intrinsic me, as time went on. At the start of the relationship they were interested in my opinions, my tastes, what I liked to do in my free time, my politics, what I read. Over time either their interest in this waned significantly (or they just stopped bothering to pretend). With my ex it got to the point by the end of our 10 year relationship that all of our conversation was about our daughter or procedural stuff to do with the house (has this item been bought? has this bill been paid?). If I tried to engage him on anything abstract or philosophical or even just conversational he would become visibly impatient as if it wasn't really my place to have an opinion. My ex is possibly a bad example but I have been with more intelligent men who have exhibited these traits. I think an awful lot of men struggle to engage with their partner as a fully sentient and autonomous human being with utility outside of the relationship.

Even quite intelligent men with a broad range of interests struggle with the idea that their wife or female partner is their genuine intellectual equal, I think.

I think the uneven gender ratio (UK isn't as bad as China India and the middle East, but it's there) has a lot do with mysogonist attitudes. A surplus of men competing for a much smaller amount of women. Unfortunately bound to lead to resentment.

I think what unnerves me is how many men hate a woman speaking and giving her opinion. I’m not even talking about the violent men, I mean the functioning ones with decent relationships with wives and children. Some of them might even try and be less sexist. Yet when a woman says something they don’t like they will try and shut her up.

@user656709

Not womens fault no.

I appreciate not tolerating abuse is dangerous for women.

However, I dont see how else we change things?

If women don't say its not ok, how does it change?

@mycatisannoying

Can they not have both of what?

I dont understand your comment

@Suetodo88

You're still implying that Kensington cultural space that women should leave alone is to be the ones in charge

I don’t think ‘hate’ is the right word - for a lot of men it’s more nuanced than that. More like a superiority complex.

@zigzagzigzagz

Exactly. A substantial amount of men find it annoying and unsettling when women have any kind of opinion about anything. They would generally prefer us to be as quiet and unassuming as possible.

And as you say its not just the outright sexist thugs. Even very intelligent and superficially progressive men are often profoundly threatened by opinionated women.

I read on here once that there is a remote people on some isolated part of the world where they hadn't figured out that men were involved in conception and treated women very well. I think women were the leaders in that society. At some point they learned about their role in conception and things changed. My memory is probably patchy but I think that was the gist.

Not everything you read on MN is true

If it's less than half of the male population it's a minority

By definition

And I would anyone who genuinely thinks half of all men are rapists

I think power in society is very hidden now. It would have been very obvious in a Stone Age tribe (and we are fundamentally still those people. Our bodies and brains have changed very little) Resources would have been scarce, but each member of the tribe would have had a crucial and obvious-to-all part in acquiring them. Young men would have been valued for their physical strength for hunting and building, young women and mothers revered as literally the future of the tribe, older members had skills, wisdom
and memories to impart to all that survival literally depended on. A tribe that lacked one of these types of people would be finished - they could all see that - so no one group would have power over the others. It’s possible older women had more use to the tribe than older men. A past-it hunter is less useful than a past-it homemaker, and the fact that ALL resources came from natural sources meant that the symbolism of being able to create new resources was pretty obvious to all. They were likely matriarchal, but everyone could respect each other’s obvious contributions more easily.

Now, we have money. Money allows resources to be bought while having no idea at all where they come from or how they are made. It creates distance from actual resources. Natural ability to create new life doesn't matter. Skills don’t matter. Natural abilities don’t matter. We can’t even see who creates wealth. We can’t see who accumulates it, really, unless they choose to flaunt it. It’s links with political power are hidden, but definite. People are insulated from the entire process of life support. In fact, it’s devalued. Money is all that matters. And money and it’s creation (especially ‘corporate’ money systems) is very much a patriarchal, capitalist system.

It would be a perfect Phd. ‘Patriarchal society develops alongside dependence on money and removal from the source of natural resources’ A system reliant on cash is patriarchal. We don’t need more people.