Page 5 | Girl tried to pull down my son’s shorts

dontwanttooverreact · 2022-08-05T13:10:01+00:00

My son is 4 and he went to a 3 hour camp at our sport’s club today. He had been yesterday with a school friend and today with the same friend. After pick up today he told us that a 10 year old girl had tried to pull down his pants and shorts “to see if he was a girl or a boy”. he is upset, this was his first experience of camp and he is quite shy. Additionally the school friend independently told her mother the exact same story so i believe it (I believed it anyway but you never know with 4 year olds and details. he told the supervisor who apparently said something to the girl but no one told us at pick up. AIBU to be furious? I had assumed initially the girl was also 4/5, but 10?!? Surely that’s not on? What, if anything, can I do? [Title edited by MNQ at poster's request]

Cordeliathecat · 05/08/2022 15:36

Alfenstein · 05/08/2022 15:28

@wellhelloitsme pantsing is a known 'practical joke'

It's not right nor appropriate but this is a far cry from sexual assault

I was also going to say this. My daughter’s friendship group do this. Boys and girls. We tell them off for it but they still do it as it’s hilarious apparently. There is nothing remotely sexual in it, it’s about exposing pants and therefore embarrassing. I’d be wary of labelling a child as some sort of sexual predator for partaking in idiotic hijinx.

Original poster

dontwanttooverreact · 05/08/2022 15:37

I think it makes a lot more sense now that I know my son was saying he’s a girl, for an older child to say “no you’re not” and try to prove he has a willy. So from that point of view I have more clarity. I don’t really know what to make of what the woman said. Either she was there and saw it/he told her and she’s lying, or it happened after the fact and she didn’t see.

OP posts:

wellhelloitsme · 05/08/2022 15:38

@Cordeliathecat

Doing it to embarrass someone rather than for sexual gratification doesn't make it ok.

And if you found out your 10 year old wasn't 'just' doing this to mates who also did it back, but was doing it to five year old they didn't really know at a sports camp... you wouldn't find that concerning and expect a safeguarding lead to get involved?

carefullycourageous · 05/08/2022 15:38

Cordeliathecat · 05/08/2022 15:36

I was also going to say this. My daughter’s friendship group do this. Boys and girls. We tell them off for it but they still do it as it’s hilarious apparently. There is nothing remotely sexual in it, it’s about exposing pants and therefore embarrassing. I’d be wary of labelling a child as some sort of sexual predator for partaking in idiotic hijinx.

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I can't believe this - you are fine with your child exposing people's underwear to embarrass them?
WTF. Sort out your child's behaviour.

jewishmum · 05/08/2022 15:39

Sounds like child-like curiosity, possibly from a 10 year old girl with additional needs. Shouldn't have happened, and the girl needs to understand why that's not ok to do, but police?! She wasn't molesting the boy. Does the boy have slightly longer hair? Perhaps she needs to learn about gender stereotypes?

Original poster

dontwanttooverreact · 05/08/2022 15:39

Addicted2LuvIsland · 05/08/2022 15:35

I honestly think this is an example of kids messing around and it going too far. Could it be that your child said "she pulled my trousers down" but actually meant "she saud she was going to pull my trousers down". It could be the chance said it, went to do it and didn't. This happens all the time with kids.

This is exactly why I never immediately jump to "call the police" and "sexual assault" sometimes (not always) there us a whole other side to a story that children leave out. Also their vocab is not as developed. I am by no means saying do not believe. I am just saying when it comes to kids and kids it can be tricky.

For example, my friends son came home saying no one was playing with him and he was alone in the playground. He also said he was being bullied. It turns out this was absolutely not the case and there was much more to the story than meets the eye. One of the things being that my friend was v v anxious about her son and he picked up on this and began exagerrating things.

By all means follow up and speak to the parent, but also keep an open mind.

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My son has form for reporting stuff very accurately - there have been a couple of incidents at nursery he always came home and told me in detail and was always corroborated by the teacher. He was very specific that they tried to pull them down physically - he knows very well about bottoms and willies being private hence why he was upset by it.

OP posts:

Pootle40 · 05/08/2022 15:41

35965a · 05/08/2022 14:19

I’d be reporting the incident to the police. Yeah they probably won’t do anything but I would want to at least try.

🤷🏻‍♀️ what?!

Alfenstein · 05/08/2022 15:41

@dontwanttooverreact

So did this child pull your child's trousers down, or try to?

Original poster

dontwanttooverreact · 05/08/2022 15:43

@Alfenstein

have you read the thread?

OP posts:

AmyDudley · 05/08/2022 15:44

So they had nine children in their care. Just nine children and they missed this incident? What on earth were they doing ? - obviously not supervising the children adequately.

If I undertand your update correctly it seems that it was a long haired boy who assaulted your child (and your son mistook him for a girl). This boy wanted to know if your son was a boy or a girl, your son was playing and had said he was a girl. So this long haired boy thinks it is OK to pull down a little 'girls' pants. (Obviously not Ok for any child of whatever sex to assault another child,)

Hopefully now you have spoken to the mother she will take action - she works with children and she has not instilled into her 10 yr old son that you do not pull down another child's underwear. That is worrying.

Alfenstein · 05/08/2022 15:45

dontwanttooverreact · 05/08/2022 15:43

@Alfenstein

have you read the thread?

Quote from your last comment - 'He was very specific that they tried to pull them down physically '

Hence my question

Cordeliathecat · 05/08/2022 15:45

wellhelloitsme · 05/08/2022 15:38

@Cordeliathecat

Doing it to embarrass someone rather than for sexual gratification doesn't make it ok.

And if you found out your 10 year old wasn't 'just' doing this to mates who also did it back, but was doing it to five year old they didn't really know at a sports camp... you wouldn't find that concerning and expect a safeguarding lead to get involved?

I would be furious if my 10 year old did it to a 5 year old they just met in sports camp. My point is that if they did, it wouldn’t be sexual. It would be because they do it with their friends and it would be a mean error of judgment. Not a result of them being abused at home, or being a sexual predator, or even actually wanting to see genitals. It would have just been a cruel practical joke which I would have punished them for.

Emotionalsupportviper · 05/08/2022 15:47

1099 · 05/08/2022 14:33

I wouldn't be bothering with the club, just report it to the Police, she's 10 so over the age of criminal liability and whilst they're unlikely to pursue a criminal case against her they are likely to involve appropriate agencies that can assess whether she is a risk or indeed at risk.

I'd also inform the police.

The management of the club aren't taking it seriously - police involvement will force them to address it properly.

As you say - there are other children and their safeguarding obviously isn't up to scratch.

Original poster

dontwanttooverreact · 05/08/2022 15:48

Alfenstein · 05/08/2022 15:45

Quote from your last comment - 'He was very specific that they tried to pull them down physically '

Hence my question

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he tried to pull them down. I don’t understand the question I have said repeatedly that he tried to pull them down?

OP posts:

Jedsnewstar · 05/08/2022 15:48

dontwanttooverreact · 05/08/2022 14:42

@spirit20

I would also ask what their safeguarding procedure for dealing with signs of sexualised behaviour in children.This is a sign of sexualised behaviour in the 10yo child, and this should be reported to someone, maybe to the safeguarding lead at her school, as well. She could potentially be at risk herself, depending on where she is learning this behaviour from

I did also think this

Yep this was my first thought. I had a friend in school who was like this to everyone and it transpired her dad was abusing her.

Original poster

dontwanttooverreact · 05/08/2022 15:49

AmyDudley · 05/08/2022 15:44

So they had nine children in their care. Just nine children and they missed this incident? What on earth were they doing ? - obviously not supervising the children adequately.

If I undertand your update correctly it seems that it was a long haired boy who assaulted your child (and your son mistook him for a girl). This boy wanted to know if your son was a boy or a girl, your son was playing and had said he was a girl. So this long haired boy thinks it is OK to pull down a little 'girls' pants. (Obviously not Ok for any child of whatever sex to assault another child,)

Hopefully now you have spoken to the mother she will take action - she works with children and she has not instilled into her 10 yr old son that you do not pull down another child's underwear. That is worrying.

That’s exactly what seems to have happened, yes! There were 2 adults in charge, this woman and a young man.

OP posts:

Cordeliathecat · 05/08/2022 15:49

carefullycourageous · 05/08/2022 15:38

I can't believe this - you are fine with your child exposing people's underwear to embarrass them?
WTF. Sort out your child's behaviour.

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Not at all fine with it actually. They get told off every time. I’m trying to explain that this is a common practical joke that kids do with each other sometimes. 10 years old seems to be when very silly, stupid behaviour kicks in. It’s not always a sign of sexualised behaviour. Far from it in fact. It’s not about getting their rocks off seeing genitals. It’s about embarrassing each other. Not right, not appropriate but not sinister either.

Alfenstein · 05/08/2022 15:50

@dontwanttooverreact because your post title contradicts this

It also then means those posters saying it's sexual assault are definitely off base

Ahnobother · 05/08/2022 15:51

I don't think it matters at this stage what the motivation was for the incident.
What matters is that firstly the OP wasn't told about it by the camp - either they weren't aware or were but didn't think it relevant. That needs tackled.
Then when the OP raised it, the report wasn't taken significantly seriously enough. That needs addressed.
Now there has been some engagement and a potential explanation given, that needs to be addressed. And not by the supervisor / parent.
Assuming it was just 'banter' even then, the outcome should include better supervision, a look at whether the age mix is appropriate and a review of camp policy / rules for all staff and also perhaps a reminder that is she appropriate for kids at camp on what the rules are.
All those saying it's a step too far to cry sexual assault. Perhaps it wasn't in this case but there are plenty of examples where people dismissed incidents as banter or just a bit of messing in the past and were proven horribly wrong at a later date.

Original poster

dontwanttooverreact · 05/08/2022 15:51

Cordeliathecat · 05/08/2022 15:49

Not at all fine with it actually. They get told off every time. I’m trying to explain that this is a common practical joke that kids do with each other sometimes. 10 years old seems to be when very silly, stupid behaviour kicks in. It’s not always a sign of sexualised behaviour. Far from it in fact. It’s not about getting their rocks off seeing genitals. It’s about embarrassing each other. Not right, not appropriate but not sinister either.

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I don’t disagree with you re older children mucking around together/trying to embarrass each other. And in this instance it seems to have been this boy trying to prove my son was not a girl. But surely the age gap is what makes this most unacceptable? My son is 4.

OP posts:

Alfenstein · 05/08/2022 15:53

@dontwanttooverreact

But your son isn't a girl

Based on the facts presented although the 10yo was wrong it's not akin to a random child pulling your kids trousers down to have a look

Your son said he was a girl, this other child thought he was lying, knows the way to tell if someone is a boy or a girl is based on what's between the legs and therefore went to prove one way or another

Addicted2LuvIsland · 05/08/2022 15:53

dontwanttooverreact · 05/08/2022 15:39

My son has form for reporting stuff very accurately - there have been a couple of incidents at nursery he always came home and told me in detail and was always corroborated by the teacher. He was very specific that they tried to pull them down physically - he knows very well about bottoms and willies being private hence why he was upset by it.

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Which is why I said "sometimes not always" I have no idea about your child which is why I worded it the way I did. However, your child also said it was a 10 year old girl and in fact it was a boy. So not that accurate after all.

Morethanthis71 · 05/08/2022 15:54

I'm with you on this OP, not at all appropriate, I hope your son is okay. This is a safeguarding issue.

Addicted2LuvIsland · 05/08/2022 15:54

Ahnobother · 05/08/2022 15:51

I don't think it matters at this stage what the motivation was for the incident.
What matters is that firstly the OP wasn't told about it by the camp - either they weren't aware or were but didn't think it relevant. That needs tackled.
Then when the OP raised it, the report wasn't taken significantly seriously enough. That needs addressed.
Now there has been some engagement and a potential explanation given, that needs to be addressed. And not by the supervisor / parent.
Assuming it was just 'banter' even then, the outcome should include better supervision, a look at whether the age mix is appropriate and a review of camp policy / rules for all staff and also perhaps a reminder that is she appropriate for kids at camp on what the rules are.
All those saying it's a step too far to cry sexual assault. Perhaps it wasn't in this case but there are plenty of examples where people dismissed incidents as banter or just a bit of messing in the past and were proven horribly wrong at a later date.

For sure but another poster also said it depends on whether or not the chd pulling the trousers down has form for this behaviour. That makes a huge difference too.

Cordeliathecat · 05/08/2022 15:56

dontwanttooverreact · 05/08/2022 15:51

I don’t disagree with you re older children mucking around together/trying to embarrass each other. And in this instance it seems to have been this boy trying to prove my son was not a girl. But surely the age gap is what makes this most unacceptable? My son is 4.

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Absolutely unacceptable as your boy is so young and the child is much older. You and your son deserve an apology. I’m just trying to reassure you that it’s unlikely to be sexual as many posters are suggesting and more likely a 10 year old’s error of judgement with her/his joke.