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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think adoption is not a fix all answer to not having biological children?

263 replies

StopSayingIt · 02/08/2022 10:53

Just want to preface this by saying I in absolutely no way mean that adopted children are loved any less, I understand that you can certainly feel exactly the same way about adopted children and biological children. That's not the point of this thread.

I have suffered from fertility issues myself for a long time, I do have children but it was a long long road involving various consultants, late stage losses, IVF clinics, genetic counsellors and on and on... Because of this I know quite a few people in similar circumstances through the various clinics I attended, Facebook groups and the like, I also have some close friends going through similar issues.

One thing I cannot stand when discussing this subject is the amount of people who suggest adoption as a fix all answer. "Have you looked into adoption?" It absolutely infuriates me and I think anyone who does it is frankly, a bit of an idiot.

Firstly, everyone knows about adoption, we don't need reminding that it exists.

But secondly and most importantly, I don't think it's fair or correct to state it as if it's some easy answer to infertility. Adoption is wonderful, my best friends daughter is adopted and I know she absolutely loves her daughter no less than her biological children but it's not easy either, it's not just a simple "fix" for having biological children, there have been lots of tough times, lovely times and challenges in its own right. She also hates people suggesting it in response to infertility and has said simply wanting children is not the same as going through the adoption process.

AIBU or is it a reasonable suggestion that couples suffering fertility issues "could just adopt"?

OP posts:
gannett · 02/08/2022 17:34

This isn't something I say, nor even believe - I was adopted and am now NC with my evangelist Christian parents so it didn't work out too well for me (though not especially worse than for people who are NC with birth parents, so I don't think adoption itself was to "blame").

However I still feel the words come to my lips when people are talking about infertility. I always stop it but it's fundamentally because I have no idea what to say. I'm child-free and so I have no idea what the urge to have a biological child even feels like, can't relate to it at all, so the nearest feeling I can imagine is a general need to nurture.

Like I said I know that assumption is bollocks and so I don't say anything. But that might be where people are coming from.

JubileeTrifle · 02/08/2022 18:06

I imagine there is a massive difference from having a newborn baby to taking home a toddler/child with issues.

I knew someone who adopted 3 children (she always knew she was infertile from being very young) and gave up working as she knew she needed to give them lots of time.

I did have a friend going for IVF who said the adoption thing. She now has 2 children (second was a surprise) who spent most of their time with GPs. I don’t imagine she would have stuck with the process.

TheOGCCL · 02/08/2022 18:15

Some people seem to think to adopt you can rock up somewhere (not sure where exactly, a home?) and pick out one you like the look of. Like a rescue cat.

They may think babies are easy to come by, not imagining quite challenging four year olds. And they do not seem to appreciate that their backgrounds are likely to be difficult ( or else why are they in need of a new home) and behavioural problems common.

Just not the same as having your own child.

bringon2020 · 02/08/2022 21:32

I don't know if anyone said this already, but I think this kind of comment comes from the time when babies were put for adoption simply because they were born from single women (which was a very sad thing, there are horrible stories about that).

In this situation, adopting a baby was relatively straightforward, you go home with a newborn baby, the main difference is that the baby is not genetically yours.

Today it's a completely different thing. Children are usually older, frequently coming from complicated homes, SS involved, etc.

Adopting children in UK today is completely different from adopting children in the UK in the 1960s. And the people who make this kind of comments are, I think, still in the 60s.

Halstead · 02/08/2022 21:42

CbaThinkingOfAUsername · 02/08/2022 11:38

Would you mind sharing why parenting adopted children is nothing like parenting birth children? Does it stem from trauma that the children may have faced in their birth families? Does it depend on the age that the children were adopted?

There is a lot of research on this which I will attempt to summarise (poorly, no doubt). It also doesn’t fit every child - there will be exceptions.

Child development is broadly linear. It goes…

  1. Attachment
  2. Understanding Reward/Punishment -aka cause and effect
  3. Social interaction (eg reading non verbal cues)
  4. Reflecting/reasoning
  5. Executive function/problem solving/complex thinking - impulse control and empathy.
if the first step isn’t completed properly the next steps will be interrupted/won’t develop properly. Executive function is still being developed until mid 20s.

The fundamental underpinning (attachment) of Children’s secure development occurs in their first 18-24 months. (Postnatally*), it starts with the ‘serve/return’ that takes place between child and primary caregiver (not necessarily parent). Baby has a wet nappy, parent goes to them, soothes them, changes their nappy, settles them.

Baby learns they are important enough to have their needs met. They develop a secure attachment. They learn… at a sub conscious level… they are important and have a ‘place in the world’. As a result of this, they go on to be able to develop things like resilience and emotional regulation properly … everything else fundamental to being a functional adult (I.e. the following steps of child development)

Adopted babies are overwhelmingly from a background of abuse and or neglect (in the UK). When they cry they don’t have a primary caregiver soothing them. They are (often) ignored… or punished.. for crying.

These babies often - not always - develop disordered attachment. The rest of their development is interrupted as a result. Neglect is often worse than abuse… that is certainly the case with my two children where DD (neglected) is more severely impacted than DS (abused).

DS (16) cannot - and I mean cannot - link cause and effect. He cannot understand why if he watches his laptop all night after smuggling it to his room (no impulse control) he has screen time restrictions imposed. In his world, it’s grossly unfair, the parental controls I installed weren’t strong enough, it was his sisters fault for leaving the laptop in his room, if he had no restrictions he’d regulate himself (reader, he wouldn’t!)… it really is toddler logic. This logic extends into every area of his life, no matter how much we spend time helping him work out ‘what happens next’. I imagine he will get into debt as an adult, but won’t learn/take responsibility and will repeat the cycle multiple times.

DD is 14 but operates at the level of a 6 year old. No stranger danger. No road safety. Sensory processing issues. Question mark over whether she’ll ever work or live independently.

*it is possible for there to be ill effects from in utero experiences too. Alcohol, obviously, can cause FASD, but what is less known is that high stress levels during pregnancy can create elevated cortisol levels in a baby that can also have some significant effects.

That’s all to say no… it often doesn’t matter what age children are removed. The biggest impact on a child’s life is had in pregnancy/the first 18-24 months. Quite often, social services/the courts haven’t removed children before that age. Then, it’s over to the adopted parents to try to manage the arising difficulties, often with little support.

Lastly - and anecdotally - it’s said (and, knowing a lot of adopted families I would say this bears true)… around 20% or adopted children will have few to no ‘issues’… 60% medium to moderate (both my children would fall into this bracket) and 20% severe… including violence. Those thresholds, one would expect/hope, are not the same as for birth children.

Hope that helps.

DifficultBloodyWoman · 02/08/2022 23:57

@bringon2020 - that had never occurred to me but it does make sense.

@Halstead - very interesting - thank you

Littleoakhorn · 03/08/2022 03:16

people say ridiculously insensitive things to couples with infertility. However, looking at it a different way, if you have the emotional strength to get through ivf and to pick yourself up after losses, and you have the space in your heart and life for a child, then you might make a good adoptive parent. It’s never a case of ‘just’ adopting though.

WhatNoRaisins · 03/08/2022 06:48

I wonder if you did a survey of the UK population how many would have a realistic idea of what's involved in modern adoption. My suspicion is that most people's concepts are based on how it was 50+ years ago or adoption in fiction, typically set in different time periods or cultures.

And yes being able to listen sympathetically without trying to fix is a great skill that should be valued more.

CounsellorTroi · 03/08/2022 11:10

WhatNoRaisins · 03/08/2022 06:48

I wonder if you did a survey of the UK population how many would have a realistic idea of what's involved in modern adoption. My suspicion is that most people's concepts are based on how it was 50+ years ago or adoption in fiction, typically set in different time periods or cultures.

And yes being able to listen sympathetically without trying to fix is a great skill that should be valued more.

Yes - like children in care are all like Annie in the film.

EL8888 · 03/08/2022 11:31

@Littleoakhorn but lm sure lots of people like me are burned out by the IVF process and can’t face the adoption process -even if l did want to adopt. I just don’t have the stomach for more hoop jumping, endless appointments and stupid requests e.g. having to use contraception, taking extended periods of time off work etc

Littleoakhorn · 03/08/2022 13:18

@EL8888 , that’s also absolutely true.

Halstead · 03/08/2022 21:18

DifficultBloodyWoman · 02/08/2022 23:57

@bringon2020 - that had never occurred to me but it does make sense.

@Halstead - very interesting - thank you

You’re welcome 😊

secular39 · 03/08/2022 21:30

In all this though. Having children is a privilege not a right.

HappyHappyHermit · 03/08/2022 21:48

Unbelievably glad and grateful that my parents did consider and go through with adoption having been unable to have a child otherwise. I actually do believe more people ought to consider it as a potential option, as however painful it may be to admit you cannot create your own child, life with one who becomes yours could be amazing. I'm not saying it's for all and definitely not a dream solution but I don't think people should automatically rule it out just because it won't biologically be theirs.

Algbu6 · 03/08/2022 21:54

secular39 · 03/08/2022 21:30

In all this though. Having children is a privilege not a right.

That's a really shitty thing to say totally inappropriate. What consulation is that to anybody struggling to conceieve or had several miscarriages?

AIBAnxious · 03/08/2022 21:58

YANBU. I suffered infertility and did look into adopting. Just getting through the process looked like it would require huge amounts of time, effort and dedication.

I saw it explained like this somewhere: years ago, before contraception and abortions were widely available, there were lots of babies who were unwanted and adoption was more straightforward than it is today. Now there are very few unwanted babies, so children needing adoption are ones who have been taken by SS. So a lot of them have been affected by abuse, drugs or alcohol. They don't just need a standard parent - they need a really special person to look after them and turn their lives around. Which is why you have to jump through so many hoops and prove yourself before you are allowed to adopt.

So it is 100% not an alternative to having your own children, it is almost a calling i would say. I have huge admiration for those who do it though!

HappyHappyHermit · 03/08/2022 22:05

The idea that it is not an alternative is incredibly offensive to me as an adoptee. Of course it is. You don't have to want to do it but please some people here need to stop talking about all adoptees as if they are no more than pets or hobbies. My family is my family, biological or not. This thread has made me really sad.

CounsellorTroi · 03/08/2022 22:08

No one has said that it’s not an alternative. Only that it is not the answer for everyone who can’t have a child.

HappyHappyHermit · 03/08/2022 22:11

Several people have very clearly stated they believe it is not an alternative.

BlahBl4h · 03/08/2022 22:18

HappyHappyHermit · 03/08/2022 22:11

Several people have very clearly stated they believe it is not an alternative.

I don't think people are saying its never an alternative or 'as good as'.

But I do think it's fair to say that just because you want a biological child and can't have one, doesn't mean you'd be suited for adoption and the potential challenges that could come with that. It's not always (in some cases it may be but there is no guarantee) going to be like for like in that sense for the very valid reasons PPs have given.

I don't think people should automatically rule it out just because it won't biologically be theirs

You can't tell people what they should and shouldn't rule out though. It may be hurtful but there is nothing wrong with someone wanting a biological child, there is no 'dont think they should' about it. That is their choice and it's not offensive or invalid. Some people don't care so much about biology, others will and that's okay.

BlahBl4h · 03/08/2022 22:20

What people are saying is its not a quick and easy solve all solution to infertility and nor should it be.

HappyHappyHermit · 03/08/2022 22:27

I also don't think anyone should be telling someone what they should be offended about. Imagine reading over and over again that you are clearly viewed as not as good an option.

I've been very clear I also believe it isn't for everyone, but biology is not the be all and end all and it may be important to be reminded not to cut off your nose to spite your face. Many on this thread would perhaps prefer we go back to the days where only biological children can inherit etc!

BlahBl4h · 03/08/2022 22:34

I also don't think anyone should be telling someone what they should be offended about

No but being offended by something doesn't invalidate whatever it is you're offended by or mean that it's wrong.

I am sorry you're offended by people are entitled to not wish to adopt. No one is saying biology is the be all and end all but it's okay for someone to say they want a biological child but wouldn't be open to adoption if that couldn't happen. You yourself just said it isn't for everyone. PPs have given very good examples of why this may be.

No one is saying children who are adopted aren't 'as good as' biological children. Not one. Just that adoption is not an easy solution to infertility. You can say the latter without it meaning the former.

BlahBl4h · 03/08/2022 22:35

But people are entitled not by.

HappyHappyHermit · 03/08/2022 22:41

@BlahBl4h Please don't twist my words, I am not offended if people do not want to adopt at all, I am offended and hurt at the way some people on this thread are talking about adoptees and their families. You may not be saying that but several on this thread have.