To think adoption is not a fix all answer to not having biological children?

[StopSayingIt]

Just want to preface this by saying I in absolutely no way mean that adopted children are loved any less, I understand that you can certainly feel exactly the same way about adopted children and biological children. That's not the point of this thread.

I have suffered from fertility issues myself for a long time, I do have children but it was a long long road involving various consultants, late stage losses, IVF clinics, genetic counsellors and on and on... Because of this I know quite a few people in similar circumstances through the various clinics I attended, Facebook groups and the like, I also have some close friends going through similar issues.

One thing I cannot stand when discussing this subject is the amount of people who suggest adoption as a fix all answer. "Have you looked into adoption?" It absolutely infuriates me and I think anyone who does it is frankly, a bit of an idiot.

Firstly, everyone knows about adoption, we don't need reminding that it exists.

But secondly and most importantly, I don't think it's fair or correct to state it as if it's some easy answer to infertility. Adoption is wonderful, my best friends daughter is adopted and I know she absolutely loves her daughter no less than her biological children but it's not easy either, it's not just a simple "fix" for having biological children, there have been lots of tough times, lovely times and challenges in its own right. She also hates people suggesting it in response to infertility and has said simply wanting children is not the same as going through the adoption process.

AIBU or is it a reasonable suggestion that couples suffering fertility issues "could just adopt"?

@AIBAnxious

I don’t think talking about babies as being ‘unwanted’ is helpful. The children to whom you were referring were mostly born to young, unmarried girls and women who were forced to give up their children.

on other points
I’m a single adoptive mum, I couldnt give a toss about biology, I never considered any other option than adoption to have a child. My son is my son. He is an amazing young man who has worked hard to overcome his early years.

But biology does matter to some people and that should be respected.
In the same way, biology matters to some adoptees and not to others, and in different ways.
My son’s connections to his birth siblings is incredibly important to him. He would be devastated if he could not see them. He is not that interested in his birth mum, but grieves for his dad. He is only 18, his feelings may change, they may not. But our relationship is very strong and I will support him in whatever he wants to do.

This 100%

The adoption and care system in the UK need dramatically overhauled. I work within this sector and while in some instances adoption is the best outcome for the child, it's super nuanced and there are a lot of adoptees who feel very strongly that adoption isn't the best way to support a child in care as opposed to guardianship for example where the child can still maintain their identity as part of their first or birth family. It also means that if that bio parents circumstances change or their mental health improves its too late, they've lost their child regardless and due to the demand for children under 3 as opposed to over 3 years old things move much more quickly with babies and toddlers which to me is ethically icky. I think the op actually is showing good insight in recognising that adoption isn't a way to fill a family. If that's the sole intention, then that focuses the adoption on the needs of the adoptive parents rather than the child which should be the focus because for them adoption will always be borne out of trauma grief and loss even if it appears to be a better environment for them at the time. They need their adoptive parents to be able to recognise and hold that space for them and also to recognise that there will be things they need from their bio families that they cannot get from adoptive families which can be really difficult emotionally. I also think it's important to recognise that some people want to have the experience of giving birth, being pregnant and all that goes with that and allowed to grieve that when it isn't happening without having to fend off well intentioned solutions.

I also think it's important to recognise that some people want to have the experience of giving birth, being pregnant and all that goes with that and allowed to grieve that when it isn't happening without having to fend off well intentioned solutions.

This. Most people want to procreate. That is the biological urge. That’s why most people, fertile or infertile, set out to conceive a child rather than adopt one when they decide they want a family.

I think the most important thing to remember is the child did not chose to go into the adopted family, but rather, the family chose to have them in their family. So the onus really is to make sure that all the child's needs are met. Including cultural, if appropriate.

Far too many times, in the past, adopted parents were treated like Saints and, very often, the adopted children were treated at sinners.

It is not a slight on you if the adopted child wants to know about their background. Why shouldn't a child know where they belong. Or if a child wants to meet their birth family.

It is not for everyone. In fact, in my opinion, only a select few that actually adopt successfully..

The process is definitely not easy and people would need to be prepared for invasive checks, expense, and potentially handling severe emotional trauma.

BUT I think it is another way of having a family and people are just reminding you that there are other ways. Like reminding a single friend who wants a child that she could use donor sperm.

I have a few friends who were adopted and have an adopted uncle and they are just completely part of the family.

Talking about children of "your own" and "unwanted babies" is shitty.

I'm adopted and an adoptive mom. Language matters. I was not unwanted.

Again this 100% some of these comments make us that are adopted a second prize.

@Josette77 and @Watermelonsugarhighlove I completely agree.

@Whynow2021 Interesting, I work with a lot of adoption support bodies and there is a strong feeling amongst adult adopters and adoptees that there is too much emphasis on protecting the biological link now. Too often that is put ahead of the needs of the child in the middle of the process and the biological parents are prioritised over the need of the child to have a stable home and a proper loving family. Too often the biological parents are just trying to get revenge on the system and are not bothered by what is best for the child or baby.

I think it can be AN answer for some people, but it is not THE answer for everyone.

I have friends who have adopted children and I have seen how hard the process is. But they could not have children and this was the answer for them.

I think you're being harsh. It's am option like other posters have suggested. I think you're looking at it way too negatively. Would you feel the same if someone suggested IVF?
I have fertility issues and am more than happy to adopt/Foster and really don't kind when people open up the subject.

BUT I think it is another way of having a family and people are just reminding you that there are other ways. Like reminding a single friend who wants a child that she could use donor sperm.

But most people in this situation don’t need “reminding”. They will have considered all their options exhaustively. As has been said over and over again on this thread, if someone talks to you about their infertility they don’t need solutions or advice. They just need to be listened to and supported. It’s possible to be supportive without going into problem solving mode.

@georgarina don't you think it's quite patronising to think that a woman would need "reminding" that adoption (or donor sperm) is an option?

Feeling the need to 'remind' someone going through fertility struggles is patronising as fuck. No one needs reminding about IVF or sperm donation or adoption or anything else. We aren't stupid.

In fact we probably have a better idea about things like IVF than you do considering most people will be under some sort of medical care/doctor.

It's just comes across so dismissive. 'why are you so upset? remember you can just do X Y or Z silly'.

(as someone who has a child now but spent many years struggling and went through IVF and the like).

This is part of the problem. You don't have a magic wand you can wave and make the problem go away. If someone is coming to you upset about fertility issues, you don't need to remind them about adoption as if it will solve all their woes. I am pretty much 100% sure that person will have already thought about it at least once and knows that adoption exists. They don't need reminding as if they are going to go 'GOSH YOU'RE RIGHT, I HADN'T THOUGHT OF THAT, WOW EVERYTHING IS GREAT NOW'.

If they aren't bringing it up with you then just assume they have thought about it already and have decided against it for now.

And yes, it's perfectly fine to mourn the loss of being able to experience pregnancy and birth. It doesn't make anyone a bad person.

I think being childless, whether by choice or due to infertility, is still very much a taboo.

Some people with kids are having hard time understanding why would somebody choose or settle for opting out of parenthood - maybe they truly pity the childless ones, or maybe it makes them question their own choices?

I think becoming a parent is not something many people think as optional. It’s rarely reflected upon, as many pregnancies are accidental, it’s just becomes something you get on with.

So the people who try to convince you to adopt, they probably think having an adopted child is better than having none right? Because there’s no way in hell adults can live for the sole purpose of their own enjoyment and fulfilment. There’s no life beyond being a parent. Once you can’t/won’t have kids, you’re life is basically over.

😬

I dont think it is about reminding someone, but if someone is in a dark place it can sometimes be helpful to offer some potential light. Sometimes in any situation it can feel so bad that you cannot see any possibilities so people that suggest something are most likely being kind rather than insensitive. I suspect in this type of situation there isn't really a right thing to say, a bit like when someone has lost a loved one, it will depend on the individual person and what they see as supportive.

Not if you're having a conversation and they're talking to you about being unable to have a child 🙄

FFS people are so touchy on this site.

Often there are things that feel strange/daunting/unfamiliar but with encouragement the person can change their outlook/feel brave enough to do it.

That's how it was for me with using a donor to have a child. At first it felt much too unfamiliar and scary but in talking about it with people, and in them bringing it up and making me consider it, I was brave enough to do it. And I'm extremely grateful and happy that I did.

I think what people don't like to hear is a lot of the time people are mourning being unable to have a biological child, to be pregnant and to give birth to their child. They aren't stupid. They know adoption exists but in that moment it isn't what they want and that is okay. It's not wrong or offensive or a slight against anyone. It's not for you or anyone else to try and get them to change their outlook or to think that they shouldn't care about biology. They may come to that by themselves after a while or they may not. But mourning being unable to have biological child rather than a child is very real and perfectly normal and valid to feel.

That's how it was for me with using a donor to have a child

Why didn't you just adopt? (Said with sarcasm).

Ps. Full disclosure- I’m still sitting on the fence regarding having kids. But I can see that, if me and my DH choose NOT to have them, our social circle will get significantly smaller. People just won’t leave us alone, and I don’t fancy dealing with “what’s wrong with you?” questions all the time. For now they assumed we’ll try soon/are trying already.

And I think all this 'theres just no right thing to say' is a cop out personally for just being there for a friend or whoever is talking to you. It doesn't take a genius to work it out that you don't need to offer solutions.

I think it's very different if you're coming at it as someone who's been there and chose X route (i.e. sperm donation) and then I think it's fine to say 'I did this and if you'd like to ask me any questions or discuss it let me know' but not to push any further. But Sandra who's got 3 kids and didn't struggle for any of them saying 'why don't you just adopt, there's loads of kids needing homes' is entirely different and inappropriate.

Rightly or wrongly we don’t seem to have moved on much in society and, in general, people still expect women to have a family at some point in their lives. This pressure is real and can go alongside the biological urge to reproduce for some women.I know the pain of infertility and have found, in general, people have not suggested adoption as a ‘solution’, but if they have I have gently explained to them why this is not a panacea. People do find this topic generally uncomfortable and whilst I do not see it as my job to make people more comfortable I have tendered to try and be kind to them despite the pain I have been experiencing. To speak about adoption in such general terms is misleading as it is a many layered and complex issue and to discuss it with stock phases is wrong. However unless you have been part of the process in any way it is difficult to understand. Generally I have found that the system does not provide enough support for either adopters or birth parents.

To speak about adoption in such general terms is misleading as it is a many layered and complex issue and to discuss it with stock phases is wrong

100%

Because the criteria is strict and specific and I wouldn't have got past it.

Your sarcasm isn't clever.