Is this a fair arrangement?

[EngIand]

Hi,

I have two adult DC back living at home and need some outside perspective.

DS28 - unemployed, a mature student but hasn’t gone to Uni in person since February (I am wondering if he has dropped out but he won’t broach the subject).

DD24 - works full time in London (we live an hour away on the train).

DS28 says his rent is unfair. He pays £350 a month for a large double room. He gets meals cooked for him most nights (he does not like some of our meals, so opts for takeaway a couple of times a week). Does zero house work, just locks himself in his room playing video games 99 percent of the time.

DD24 pays no rent but pays for all the shopping; the pet costs (inc insurance); does a lot of household chores including daily one hour dog walks; cooks dinner 4-5 times a week; weekly DIY around the house and has travel expenses to get up to London for work. The reason DD gets the shopping is because she cooks most of the time so plans the meals.

DS is now on rent strike until DD is charged the same amount. He also complains we cook food he doesn’t like, such as fish, which forces him to pay extra for takeaways (we have told him he could offer to buy food and cook himself).

Is this current arrangement unreasonable?

Thanks for any advice!

I’d sell his Xbox to cover his “rent” if he thinks that he gets to stay for free. The other thing I would do is get DD to change the WiFi password. I’d also lock the modem in my car. Your DS is overly entitled and needs to move out and pay real rent elsewhere.

Congratulations! You’ve trained DS into the perfect cocklodger for his future partner 👌🏼
on a serious note why the HELL are you allowing this lazy dosser to live with you?! Tell him he pays up AND starts looking for a job tomorrow or he’s out on Friday by force

It does sound like your DS is addicted to games and is probably depressed and may well have withdrawn from his uni course. All those things actually happened to me. The only solution was giving up the games. It really is the only way forward, and it’s brutal.

Computer games are designed to work on an effort/reward cycle. It’s insane but it really works- games like world of Warcraft are basically gigantic graphical spreadsheets. As a long time addict the desire to see bigger numbers on your screen is frankly odd, but the endorphin release and satisfaction of beating a spreadsheet is a real thing. In the absence of much else driving his life, it may just be the all he ever feels like doing.

if you’re not going to force him to pay rent/grow up/take responsibility, then the best response is to treat him like a child and take away what he has. No phone, no pc, no Xbox, get rid of all of it. If he needs a phone for “work” or “uni” then get him a £20 talk and text. If he needs a pc for uni, get him a very cheap laptop with virtually no graphical power and he’ll just have to make do (or let him buy these things for himself, w/e).

If you want him to improve, he has to stop playing. Some people can play games without getting addicted, good for them. Some can’t. Sounds like he’s the latter. I can play games these days because I have a wife and four children so my free time is so limited I can only play a few hours each week. But my wife knows the score and if I’m getting too deep into it she pulls me up on it, and I take a step back when that happens (every now and again).

Your DS has nothing giving structure to his life, and so gaming can take it over very easily. My parents didn’t know how to handle it, and it’s only because in the end I was convinced by friends at church who pointed out what was wrong that I stopped, but in the absence of that I failed three years of university and did nothing for those years, just racking up student debt.

Think of it like alcoholism, he is powerless in the face of it. For whatever reason (your other DS etc) he has whatever emotional problem he has. The solution to that is not found in computer games.

I have a feeling that what's coming is going to be a showdown in some form. My suggestion would be to work out in advance what the "share of costs" would be for four adults living in a property together, and whether that represents a vastly different sum than either of your children are currently paying.

The flat rate is the starting point, from there you can calculate a square footage amount if the bedrooms are drastically different sizes; you can calculate an hourly rate reduction for the things DD does that help around the house.

You could, if you wanted, calculate a discount on the basis of one of the four being a student, but he would need to provide evidence that he's still enrolled on the course and achieving acceptable grades, presumably (evil smiley face!)

All this equips you to have the conversation he's keen to avoid, which is the one where he has to finally act like a grown up and contribute rather than just consume and complain.

The dynamic is definitely different when the children are adults, but you're still the parent, the homeowner etc, and he needs a wake up call.

I’ve not read every reply as this post has made me equally sad and angry.
but why on Earth have you raised such a spoilt, entitled, manchild @EngIand ?

If he ever does leave home, he’ll expect his girlfriend to do everything you do because you haven’t taught him basic life skills like how to cook, do laundry etc. He should have known how to look after himself 12+ years ago. Now he never will. He’s lazy and that’s your fault.

When I first read MN I thought people had it sussed, raise your son to be like the husband you’d want.

He’s a problem of your own making.

Your DD is commonly known as the golden child.

i thought Cinderella not golden child😂.

she pays for groceries for four adults, cooks most meals and cares for and pays for the family pet!!!!

I wonder why you think this is the definition of a golden child??? Who is the golden child in your family and what do they need to do to earn this title?

I’d just charge them the same. Daughter puts the ocado order on and you pay for it. No arguments then. I think as a mature student who has previously worked and could easily fit personal training around his course he should be paying rent. Unfortunately I think you might have to do ‘tough love’ as he is being totally unreasonable. Sitting in a room alone, not sleeping proper hours, staring at a screen would make anyone low. What course did he enrol on? He might be better to get into a trade?

Why is this the OPs fault?
He’s a grown man and knows right from wrong. He doesn’t have to do nothing, he chooses to.

Even if he wasn’t asked to do anything, a decent person would step up and help out.

I wish people would stop blaming women for men’s bad behaviour. He knows right from wrong - he chooses to do wrong.

@ChampagneCharlieIsMyName I agree with OP - you seem quite sexist.

why is it woman's responsibility to raise the husbands they would want?

where is this man’s father? Why are four adults living in a home where one female is doing all the shopping and cooking. And pet care and diy?

why does on grown man get to hide in his room and go on rent strike. Where is the other man in this household? What is he contributing? Is he similar to his son? Has he modelled these gender roles where the man does nothing and the women scurry around?

surely this lazy adult man is the product of two parents not one?

@Quincythequince and @Stripedbag101 op made no mention of a dad on the scene. I’d hate to presume he was present, she could be widowed and I’m not judgemental on single parents, having been one myself.
Op is the one moaning, So I’m hardly going to give advice to her partner.

Sorry, I should add, I do agree with both of you. But it wasn’t made clear if there is a dad on the scene.

I never mentioned a partner.
I mentioned personal responsibility, which this 28 year old should have, and is old enough to know he should have.

Stop blaming women for men’s dick behaviour! No decent person would behave this way, just because they could.

OP spoke about there being a DH

Op, how did today go?

The school won’t give you any information, but you can request that your son log on to the university system in front of you and show you his latest courses and grades and if the school has already set schedules for the next term, that will be there too. If it’s not, there should be a date posted somewhere for his course that he could show you.

if you suspect he isn’t telling the truth about his schooling, I do think you have the right to make proof a condition of living at home. You are subsidizing a 28 year old. If he is just goofing around, you aren’t helping him.

Unless the computer he uses is a family computer, OP should NOT steal it and lock it up. And in some places if the computer is being treated as his property then he can claim it as his property even if was originally a family computer. Mom stealing his personal property isnt the way to teach anything. Excet that stealing from family when youre upset is ok. Not sure about the UK but where i am you cannot just kick someone out with no notice. If they are a household member, they are entitled to a notice to move out. Depending on the state it could be 14 days, 30 days, 60 days, etc. If he doesnt leave before the end of the notice peroid then you have to file for eviction which can take months. And you cannot start with an eviction, you have to do the notice to vacate first.

It sounds like your daughter is doing way more than her fair share. You do need to sit down and go over what she contributes to the household. Why is she paying for pet care on a family pet? Thats a parental expense. If shes cooking and shopping for the whole family she either needs to be compensated for it. Count up what she pays and the time she spends tkng care of the family and i think you'll be surprised how much she does for everyone. For DD, time to sit down and tell him he needs to contribute to the household or leave. Check the laws in your area to see your options for legally removing him. Give him sufficient notice to find somewhere (I'd say 3 months personally) and let him know its time for him to become an adult. Obviously you cannot force him to get his mental health checked but you can provide some names and numbers of places that could help him.

i thought OP referred to a husband?

DS is being a cheeky fucker. Tell him that if he pays no rent next month then he needs to get himself on RightMove and find himself somewhere to live. He’s got an amazing deal living with you and I also feel he’s lucky his sister is sharing her food several times a week. Most people can’t afford takeaways several times a week. We have a household income of over £80k and we probably only have one once a month.

Can’t you just tell DS you’re charging her? Save all this heartache.

He's 28 and a lazy bugger but he feels he has the right to go on rent strike?!!!
Yeah right!!!!
Stop letting him treat you like a doormat!

Honestly your DS sounds like a brat who needs to get a grip of himself. He’s a year younger than me and I can’t even imagine living with my parents, let alone throwing a tantrum because they dared to charge me more rent than my harder working sister. He needs to get ahold of himself, get off the video games and enter the real world. If he doesn’t like paying £350 a month to you he can find his own place where he’ll pay 2-4x as much a month.

I wonder if all his money has gone and he is picking a fight. He seemed ok with this until recently.

He cannot not pay rent. I know it's hard but if he doesnt pay rent and do something he has to leave.

A 28 year old, living at home, going on a 'rent strike'...are you for real???? Give him some boxes and tell him to find a landlord who will give him a better deal. He needs a massive reality check.

I mean I was about ready to murder my folks when I came home for summer after my first year at uni at aged 18 and got my own place and never looked back so kudos to you all for surviving so long 🤣 Seriously though OP as I've previously said though OP get firmer or you'll all suffer for the rest of your days x