Is this a fair arrangement?

[EngIand]

Hi,

I have two adult DC back living at home and need some outside perspective.

DS28 - unemployed, a mature student but hasn’t gone to Uni in person since February (I am wondering if he has dropped out but he won’t broach the subject).

DD24 - works full time in London (we live an hour away on the train).

DS28 says his rent is unfair. He pays £350 a month for a large double room. He gets meals cooked for him most nights (he does not like some of our meals, so opts for takeaway a couple of times a week). Does zero house work, just locks himself in his room playing video games 99 percent of the time.

DD24 pays no rent but pays for all the shopping; the pet costs (inc insurance); does a lot of household chores including daily one hour dog walks; cooks dinner 4-5 times a week; weekly DIY around the house and has travel expenses to get up to London for work. The reason DD gets the shopping is because she cooks most of the time so plans the meals.

DS is now on rent strike until DD is charged the same amount. He also complains we cook food he doesn’t like, such as fish, which forces him to pay extra for takeaways (we have told him he could offer to buy food and cook himself).

Is this current arrangement unreasonable?

Thanks for any advice!

You change your password by putting in your IP address.

192.168.1.1/ is the usual address I think but you can find it in network and sharing under Wifi - depending on which windows you have (I have windows 10, so I just have to click on my router and it brings it up)

Follow the instructions. Not sure who your provider is, but mine looks like this.

Honestly OP, I think my advice at this point is to learn to live with your son. He’s not going to change and from your responses neither are you. It’s a shame because you don’t sound happy. But he’s not going to spontaneously turn his life around with you enabling him.

Oh, my other advice is to enjoy your relationship with your daughter for now. Eventually that relationship will be strained too. She’ll be fed up with him and with you enabling him and will probably grow distant.

Does he at least do his own laundry and cleaning?

I think they should both pay £350 into a family account & then food is bought from there.

I also think DS is likely struggling with his course if he only got 3 GCSEs and is dyslexic.

It sounds like DD is golden girl with her scholarship to boarding school & her amazing degree. DS must feel inadequate compared to her. So I think the rent isn't your main issue.

DS probably needs to crack on and find a job rather than studying.

Sounds like your ds has struggled alot thought the years and your dd is the golden child with private school and uni and now the unfair rent treatment they both should pay the same they both should also have a list of jobs to do, your dd should be paying and walking her dog anyway just because it will become a family dog your ds does not need to take responsibility for it he is also probably struggling at uni and some courses don't end in June also online uni can be done over the full year not just the academic year, also they food bought should be what everyone eats and if its food they don't a different food should be available in the house for him to cook himself, also he needs to learn to cook (something that should have happened as a kid)

in the interest of fairness I would just take the rent off both.

£350’on groceries for 4 people. Some people say that’s not much, however if you have ever had to stretch budgets even with 4 adults you can do it for considerably less than that. It’s not a dig at the OPs daughter as she is helping out massively more than the son.

He pays contribution to household or moves out. He must choose one. Let him find a flat and stand on his own 2 feet. You do him no favours doing everything for him. Does he do his own laundry and change his own sheets?

DS is now on rent strike until DD is charged the same amount.
I find it kind of interesting that he seems more focused on his sister's situation than his own. I'd have some sympathy if he said hey, I lost my job and school's been really tough, I'm taking summer classes so I haven't really had a chance to look for a job plus I have to pay extra for them, could I get a break in the rent for a few months until I catch up? But he doesn't want to pay less rent, he wants her to pay more. (And stop cooking the foods he doesn't like.)

If you do equalise the formal rent arrangement, I'd take the opportunity to give him as many chores as she has as part of the "new deal". Let him participate in choosing which - he can do some of the shopping and dog walking and cooking if he thinks those are the posh jobs - but something!

Also, he's taking the piss not to tell you if something's changed with his uni status; subsidising rent for a full-time student who'll eventually have a degree is a bit different from open-ended no-school-no-work.

(Sorry, probably not helpful.)

Sounds like he has serious mental health or at the very least self esteem issues and it's all very well saying "show him tough love" but that won't actually solve the problem, it will probably make things worse. Some people turn out alright despite childhood difficulties and some people don't, and I don't think castigating them for being useless is particularly helpful. DS clearly has a lot of deeprooted issues which are warping his analysis of his living situation, and he is in denial about his addiction as he doesn't want to face it. I can quite see how he has these issues given what you've said about his siblings and his childhood. Of course he's not being rational - I'd be very surprised if he was able to be. Yes he's a grown man but you can't magic or tough love him into being a well adjusted one.
I can quite see how he feels it's massively unfair that he is charged rent when hia sister isn't, even though obviously she is contributing far more. I would start by getting them paying the same amount with discounts for chores or equal expectations around chores. And the whole family should meal plan together and you pay rather than DD. I would say this arrangement is dependent on him getting help for his addiction and related issues. I would go against what I wanted to do and go about all this very kindly and lovingly, as childhood issues run deep and he likely feels really shit about himself deepdown, and that he is a massive failure to you.
Good luck OP x

Your DS is being massively unreasonable.

But based on your further posts, I think it would be difficult to get him to see that.

In your shoes, I would speak to DD quietly to give her a heads up that the rent issue needs to be resolved and it will likely go in her favour.

Then, I would talk to both of children at the same time and say that you have thought about it and it is unfair. DD will now be charged rent. But of course you appreciate her help with grocery shopping etc so she must give you receipts for everything so you can reimburse her.

I’d put money on DD coming out ahead but if she didn’t, I would start paying her for DIY jobs and cleaning etc to make her come out ahead.

You need to do something. Your DS needs a kick up the backside by the sound of it. You will do him no favors letting this slide.

I'm not sure why you think it's fair that you're not setting a rent amount for them both?

Obviously the 28 is being ridiculous if he's not putting in time to clean the shared spaces.

But surely setting a base amount for both would have been your starting point.

You should know for certain if he is making steady progress on his degree. There will be breaks, but he should be able to show you he is enrolled as a full time student and completing his studies. If he isn’t, he needs to get a job. Baring exceptional medical situations, Living at home as an adult should require full time school or full time work.

I would just charge them both rent. Groceries typically aren’t included anyway so that should be on top of the rent. You could certainly give him the option to keep his own food separate, assign him a space to store his food and tell him to cook for himself.

Without meaning to, you're harming your DSs ability to live independently- he sounds completely ill-equipped at the age of 28 when most young people at that age have at least had the experience of renting for a few years.

Youre in danger of enabling him to fritter away £40k inheritance as he's currently under the false illusion he's flush with cash, because he doesn't know the true value of money and what it buys in terms of living costs.

By allowing him to arbitrarily and selfishly declare he won't pay you for his living expenses, it's yet another example of you being too soft on him, which is very cruel in the long term.

Maybe you enjoy the feeling he still relies on you like he was a 10 year old, but you need to come to terms with the fact both your children have long past the point when they should be at home.

They both are extremely lucky to have a lump sum inheritance, the kindest thing you and their father can do, is provide them with some practical tips on budgeting, guidance on looking for their own place to rent (maybe even as a house share if they get along?), but you should set a deadline for early 2023 for them to be in their own accommodation. That is plenty of time for them to get used to the idea. Your DS will never appreciate you while he's still at home.

350 does sound like a hell of a lot of rent to make your own child pay to me.

Where else could he get rent , utilities and food for £350 a month ?

Including most meals and utilities? He’s 28 for heavens sake, not 18. Plenty of men have their own homes and families by that age. OP, your DS needs a good boot up the hole. Tell him to get a job, move out, and pay his own bills. Than change the Wi-Fi password. He has almost certainly dropped out of his course so he needs to get on with being a productive member of society, not some freeloader.

I'm sorry? What is a 'rent strike'?! [Sarcasm] I wonder if I can have a mortgage or utilities strike? CF!!!

itemise his costs every month...phone, electric (using a computer(s) for gaming all day will cost a bit?), water, gas for cooking his meals, roof over his head...you'll probably find he'll have to increase his contribution!!

If he doesn't want to pay £350 per month, he needs to leave and rent somewhere...then he'll know how easy he had it at home.

I had a brother like this...never paid sod all whereas I always paid my fair share...he's still got a charmed life!

This.
I voted YABU but only because it is not transparent and equal. Both should pay rent and both should pull their weight equally or move out.

Your DD and DS should pay exactly the same rent. If your DD likes shopping as she is cooking, just return her rent to her. On paper they are then both paying the same. Then take all the jobs she does, sit them down, split the jobs and tell your DS that as he wanted to be fair, these are now his responsibility. Make it very clear that if he fails to stick to the new rules he will face eviction.

I don't understand why they don't both pay the same to be honest. If you took £350 from both and then just gave DD a debit card to pay for the food (assuming that she still wants to be in charge of meals) it would make much more sense and give no room for argument.
If she wants to do DIY that's up to her. It shouldn't be part of any financial equity.

Having said that, I'd take advantage of the 'rent strike' to say "okay then, off you go".

Throw his lazy arse out and tell him to go elsewhere, where he can get the same, for the same money.

Charging rent for a grown man, who actively chooses to do nothing at all, is perfectly reasonable.

The fact that one adult child pays versus one who doesn’t is perfectly reasonable given what DD is doing.

The dog walking alone for an hour a day means she’s giving an extra 30 hours of her month per time.

That’s outside of any food purchase at her cost, shipping and cooking!

Has her older DB offered to pay £175 to take on half her burden?

Probably not.

He’s 28, not a child.

Re the post l that says you could charge her tans then pay it back… I mean, you could.

But you could also just make it clear what she’s spending on food per month using the intensive bills, add in the 10-15 hours per week for food shop, prep and dog walking and then present this to the lazy enabled DS to consider.

You’re not helping him OP, he needs to grow up and get out quite frankly.

He sounds rude and entitled.