Is this a fair arrangement?

[EngIand]

Hi,

I have two adult DC back living at home and need some outside perspective.

DS28 - unemployed, a mature student but hasn’t gone to Uni in person since February (I am wondering if he has dropped out but he won’t broach the subject).

DD24 - works full time in London (we live an hour away on the train).

DS28 says his rent is unfair. He pays £350 a month for a large double room. He gets meals cooked for him most nights (he does not like some of our meals, so opts for takeaway a couple of times a week). Does zero house work, just locks himself in his room playing video games 99 percent of the time.

DD24 pays no rent but pays for all the shopping; the pet costs (inc insurance); does a lot of household chores including daily one hour dog walks; cooks dinner 4-5 times a week; weekly DIY around the house and has travel expenses to get up to London for work. The reason DD gets the shopping is because she cooks most of the time so plans the meals.

DS is now on rent strike until DD is charged the same amount. He also complains we cook food he doesn’t like, such as fish, which forces him to pay extra for takeaways (we have told him he could offer to buy food and cook himself).

Is this current arrangement unreasonable?

Thanks for any advice!

You should charge both £350 same pay DD back for household things she buys or give her a card to the household account of you trust her to only spend it on essentials (Shiva like you could) at the moment you're probably don't get a disservice, she's likely spending more than he is paying.
Also yes get a cheap £3 supermarket pizza for him on the nights you cook something he doesn't eat

The university won’t give out this information to a parent of an adult!

OP stop pandering to him, you have done it long enough. Give him 60 days to sort himself out, get a job and move out. His lifestyle is not healthy and you are enabling it.

Give a opportunity to knock the cost off by cooking, housework etc. Cooking 4 times a week is minus £10 a time ...same as cleaning . They both have a opportunity to work then to discount rent.

I do think this generation have it really difficult ITO getting a first home etc and will take this into account hugely when helping my own dd out.

However... you said they each inherited 40k?! WTF?! That's more than enough for them both to buy a first place surely?! If they aren't in a position to buy right now then they save the money and rent somewhere affordable until they are or they pay you rent. Simple. Time for both to stop taking the mick and move out IMHO.

My brother in law is like this and trust me your DS will never change unless you give him no option. He got in trouble with the law in the end so did end up leaving the family home. He now is presumably still alive but lives god knows where (I don't care) and I am under no illusion that his spineless parents are still enabling his waster lifestyle and paying to keep him alive and he's almost 40. He's ruined his life and has literally zero positive input into society. He never changed because he's never had to.... There's a fine line between helping your child and learned helplessness.

@EngIand why does your Dd pay for the entire family food shop plus all the dog’s bills and insurance and food etc? That’s unfair. You need to cover all the dog’s expenses. All of them. Ask Dd how much the food is per month. I bet it’s more than the £350 your 28yo ds pays in rent.

Also, if your Ds hasn’t attended Uni in months and is refusing to answer your question on whether he dropped out, then I think you have your answer.

Charge them the same and then pay dd back for the food

You're DS is a lazy entitled man child who needs to get off his arse,find a job and a place of his own.

I'm betting he's also single as I can't imagine a unemployed gaming addict who lives in his room,does no cooking or cleaning and still lives with his mummy who does everything for him is attractive.

Is this serious???? And we wonder why so many men are entitled arseholes who thinks the world revolves around them!!!
YOU are enabling him! YOU are teaching him to be a shit selfish husband (if he ever gets married). He is nearly 30 yrs old and won’t ‘tell’ you if he’s still doing his uni course? What????
Do you seriously think this is helpful to him? It’s time to firmly eject him. Your dd has shown she is being a responsible adult who knows how to contribute to society. Your ds has not.

Totally agree with this .
Your DS must be blind to not see the difference in what you'd DD contributes and tbf buying shopping for an adult family and pet costs probably adds up to more than £350 not to mention the extra chores in the home she does .
Tell your DS to plan his future he cannot exist in your bedroom gaming

This. He leaves. Why is your daughter, wh ois working full time and commuting on top, doing shopping and housework and your son, who you believe is doing nothing, not lifting a finger?

Throw the lazy baby out.

Your dd is paying for way too much. Youll have her inheritance spent.

I'd call his bluff and say he is right, that you will charge her the same rent but he needs to pitch in for food, walk the dog, cook 1 night in 4 for the family, etc etc etc so that it is 'fair'.

Then start up a seperate food bill tab which gets shared out amongst all of you. If he wants to eat he is going to have to do shopping and cooking.

You need to sit him down and ask him to move out so that the relationship doesn’t break down further. You are not responsible for the decisions of a 28 year old man. You need to get some distance and make him wake up to the reality of his own mistakes.

@Brefugee I agree that DD is paying and doing too much: she is the only one in the house working full time, walks the dog an hour a day, cooks, does DIY? What is anyone else doing to keep the household running? She's be better off moving into an HMO for a while so you lot appreciate her more.

I agree. They’d be lost without Dd running the household. She could get a nice flat rather than a HMO because she’s working and has a huge inheritance.

In ten years time some poor woman will be in here complaining about her lazy live in boyfriend who does nothing around the house and let’s her pay all the bills.

when I read those stories I wonder how these awful entitled men came to be this way!

so he thinks groceries for a family of four adults, plus chores plus pet costs is less than £350 a month!

he has money - let him move out. The £40k won’t last long - maybe two years? But that’s his problem. He is a grown adult let him see what life really costs.

what a spoilt petty lane child

I can only echo what's said here - cost out what your DD does at minimum wage (which is still a disservice to her), and pay that back (you might end up owing her!)

As to meals he doesn't like - this is a home, not a restaurant. I normally cook stuff that both kids like, but sometimes one of them doesn't, and they (8 and 10!) sort themselves out with something else. The eldest cooks dinner for us all once a week, despite his own learning difficulties making that much harder (the 8 year old bakes instead because he is far more able to do things by himself than the 10 year old)

OP, both of your children need to move out. You’re creating an incredibly unhealthy dynamic for all of you.

The focus here is on your DS but your DD is in an unhealthy situation too.

You say your DD is going to be at home with you until she can afford to buy her own place. You say that both of them inherited 40k last year but your DD is on a low salary so not in a position to do anything with this money yet.

The reality is buying a flat will take your DD years to afford if she wants to live in London or its environs. A 40k deposit is not going to go far in that area and you know this. If you keep telling her there’s no point her paying someone else’s mortgage and she’s throwing her money away etc if she moves out into a rental then you’re asking her to spend her entire twenties living with you at home. And no offence OP but this sounds like a very sweet deal for you as you get all your food shopping and cooking done, your house cleaned and your dog walked. Plus the company of your DD. It doesn’t sound like you and your DH have a brilliant relationship, and you’ve got the problem of DS looming over you all, so I’m wondering if you’re encouraging your DD to be at home as you like her being there for company - but also to help you out. This is understandable but incredibly selfish. Your DD needs to be out living her life, not staying in cooking family meals for her parents and brother every night. When I first graduated I earned hardly anything at all and had parents who lived in London but I refused to stay at home and moved out into houseshares immediately. Those years of living in dodgy flats with mad housemates were tough but also brilliant and fun and character building and they made me into the person I am. They also forced me to be independent and self sufficient. Your DD’s social and romantic life will be hugely stunted by staying at home with you and she’s also being denied the opportunity to grow and develop and have experiences of her own as an independent adult. She needs to move out and you need to ensure this happens. Stop peddling the narrative that she’s wasting money by moving out and paying rent - moving out in and of itself is an experience worth paying for. Let her go and live her life!

You need to force your son’s hand and tell him he needs to move out. Give him three months’ notice. He’s clearly not at uni and you know this and are in denial. Stop being passive. Three months will give him time to find a job and a place to live. Without you doing this you will enable him to continue living an unhealthy and unproductive existence.

And finally, you need to do some work on yourself to consider why you have allowed this situation to happen. Why have you wanted your children at home? Why have you not had the strength, capacity or skill to manage this situation? Why is your husband so absent in all this? What do you need to do get to the point where you feel able to live without your children? What healing and growing needs to happen? What changes might need to happen? This will be a tough process but you need to acknowledge to yourself that this scenario is symptomatic of deeper issues than you are acknowledging.

And OP this is dreadful but I can see your son clinging on for years - refusing to contribute waiting you and husband out. Then when you are both gone telling your daughter it’s his home and refusing to sell so she can’t get her inheritance.

he sounds awful and your daughter sounds downtrodden.

@EngIand No universities are still running courses. They finished before the schools did (which was over a week ago).

Charge both children £350 into a shared account. Pay for food from that account.

If your daughter enjoys cooking etc. then that's up to her, but it shouldn't be an expectation.

Change the wifi password. He doesn't get it until his rent is up to date and he engages with you in a serious conversation about his lifestyle and his health.

Good luck 🌻

If he’s on rent strike then I assume he’s buying all his own food for the moment?

Change the WiFi password and give him a period of notice to get his shit together or leave. He needs to stop acting like a child and actually communicate with you because this is a far wider issue than him being irritated about what his sister is or isn’t paying. You’re enabling him by allowing this situation to continue, he’s 28 for goodness sake!

DD 28 has calculated his £40k will last just over 9 years paying rent at that rate.

Kick him out now, or, be prepared to put up with him until the money runs out, by which time he will have atrophied into an unemployable husk...

Who's going to employ a 35 year old uni drop out who has never had a job? He need a bit of stick and far less carrot.

If you live in London and the Home Counties it can be very tempting from a financial point of view for DC to come home after graduation or boomerang back. However, looking at the young people at work there is a difference in maturity and self sufficiency between those that are flat sharing or going home to a cooked dinner and no ironing. Yes, those flat sharing sometimes end up asleep on the night bus or counting pennies at the end of the month, but they grow up and understand if you want a clean flat you have to clean it or employ a cleaner.

I think the finances are a bit of a red herring. Your son sounds like he needs help and I think this situation is likely to be damaging your daughter too as she acts as a go between.

Your DD is commonly known as the golden child. That's how she's being described, whereas your DS might feel he can never do as well as his sister. I'm sorry but the dynamics sound dysfunctional.
My advice would be to visit a family therapist to try to understand how best to plan moving forward.
Your DS sounds depressed & I think it's sad that the conversations haven't happened regarding whether he's left university or not, (or if they have he's not been able to say one way or another).
I might be wrong about the situation OP you know your DC better than anyone. I'm just going on what you've said. But I don't think the real issue has anything to do with rent or who is contributing to what.

Why, every time someone posts about a lazy, entitled, rude man-child, does someone come up with the ‘he must have mental health problems’

It’s really bloody insulting to people with actual MH problems, as I imagine many don’t behave as badly as this.

He’s a leech and you have enabled him OP. Ask him to leave.

Golden child?

She works FT, does all the shipping and cooking.

Does all the dog walking and covers those expenses too?

How does this sound like a person being treated as a golden child?