To think that no one will give a shit about climate change when they're freezing this winter?

[Turnandfacethestrangechanges]

Just that really. When we have a choice of spanking out £650+ in January for gas and electric or slowly freezing, will people will be less sympathetic to 'green' measures?

Will net zero go out the window when we realise how bloody miserable it is to live without modern comforts and there is civil unrest as a result?

YABU - Don't be ridiculous, climate change is the most important issue
YANBU - How true, I predict a riot

Yes I think you're right @MarshaBradyo - and in fact I think the biggest issue with the gulf stream collapse is more to do with rainfall massively decreasing... Things like tidal waves, earthquakes and extreme weather of all flavours in UK more likely to be down to "just" global warming

The collapse is very concerning. It’s one thing that might make me dust off my other passport - not so much for me but my dc

Although other country might be facing similar if it collapses not sure

If we lived on a cube with hard edges we would have six worlds. As it is we live on a sphere (with a slight bulge in the middle) so we are all equally connected and gravity proves that. There will be better places to live than the UK in the longer term, but I am betting not many.

Yes the UK will be better placed than many, a couple of others will become more attractive due to various factors - they probably are already

Ireland. Endless fucking potatoes.

No look where the money is going

Some billionaires setting up already

Where are they setting up?

I haven’t looked into it loads but from the few articles I’ve seen it looks that NZ is the popular choice

We are all connected but the pandemic probably helped show how some countries have some geographical advantages

YANBU OP

We cannot control world climate from a tiny island like the UK. Somebody needs to put a stop to this ridiculous idea

I haven’t looked into it loads but from the few articles I’ve seen it looks that NZ is the popular choice

Don't you think it's diabolical that billionaires are pushing this green agenda whilst at the same time making sure they can take refuge somewhere where it won't affect them personally?

YANBU. I don't think there will be a riot though, that's not what people really do in great number?

I think there are some incredibly self-satisfied and smug people on the thread looking at some of the posts. It's all very well to call people 'dreadfully thick and selfish' when you have your basic needs met. It's a very different story when you're starving and struggling to put food on the table and it's so worrying to read that more and more people will be so badly affected.

We all have a part to play in staving off climate change for as long as we feasibly can but, needs must - let's look after the immediate emergent needs as people come to terms with making some horrible choices that they should never have to make.

Ignore the utter morons who are wagging their fingers and jetting off on holiday... something that many people will not be doing, and not through choice either. Hypocrites. I wonder how many people won't care at setting fire to money come November 5th? Same idiots who set fire to armchairs for the same 'event'. Hugely environmentally impacting but... they care about climate change - they say so! Local Agenda 21 was back in 1992 followed by the Kyoto Protocol (specifically addressing climate change - globally) in 1997... never heard a peep about it from politicians, not then or now.

I'm lucky enough not to have serious worries about fuel at the moment but that could change. In the meantime I'm going to give what I can to the foodbanks and look after elderly neighbours with meals when I can. I won't be pillorying the people having to make desperate choices. Not at all.

if we all continue with trying to pretend climate change isn’t an issue/ we can safely ignore it then things are only going to get worse

Are you certain that adverse climate change is mainly caused by human activity? How? I'm not

This, ladies and gentleman, is how people get conditioned to accept poverty. To give up the hard won improvements in their standard of living over the last 200 years.

Spot on. Whilst other countries continue to get richer and richer and profiteer from the West's idiocy and misplaced civility

I haven't got time to read the whole thread, but just wanted to mention that actually the UK is doing pretty well wrt renewables- currently the UK is second to China in the amount of offshore wind power generated in the world, which is pretty impressive imo. This is set to increase significantly in the next five years.

Also the government is investing in renewables. The main problem at the moment is storage capacity- there aren't the batteries available to do this. But things are moving very quickly.

It’s certainly not a majority view - polling shows net zero is popular and climate change is a top 5 (sometimes top 3) voter concern

Who have they asked? The Guardian readers? Most people are busy working hard and have no time for 'polls', 'focus groups' or other nonsense. Polls often get it wrong anyway

I think the other issue is that people say things that are socially acceptable so it might explain why in polls climate change is a massive issue but in day to day real life and human behaviour it doesnt match up with what people do

Have a listen to the Briefing Room on R4 from Saturday.

Quickly skimming through that list, I see mostly fossil fuel giants. So every time you fill up your car, you are funding their pollution.

I haven’t looked into it loads but from the few articles I’ve seen it looks that NZ is the popular choice

I'm also curious as to why NZ is a popular choice for global billionaires as it's been heavily co-opted by the Left. One example of the lunacy is the current fight they have over the control of South Island water.

Or maybe the global elites can rest assured that for some reason they won't be denied the resources they are working so hard to make scarce for everyone else but themselves?

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/25/trauma-dislocation-pollution-why-maori-leaders-want-control-of-the-south-islands-water

Social Media? You completely missed meat

• I'm not sure how the simple act of possessing a passport automatically makes someone a heavy polluter. You can board flights without owning a passport, and you can own a passport without ever boarding a flight.
• 3,000 miles by car? No, again most of my longer journeys are by train, shorter ones by bike or occasionally by bus. When I do (very occasionally) end up as a passenger in someone else's car, the emissions can be divided by the number of occupants (assuming that they were making the same journey instead of merely playing chauffeur).
• My electricity is on a 100% renewable tariff, though I'm aware that those things are largely greenwash. Eventually I'll install solar panels but finding the capital isn't easy. Finding an adequate replacement for the gas central heating won't be easy. The bulk of my heating though is from the wood stove which is technically renewable, and certainly better for the climate than gas, though if I lived in a densely-populated area the particulates would be a problem for air quality.
• I holiday all over Europe, but travel by train.
• I cycle to the shops (often on my way to/from work which keeps the extra mileage down). When I am already in towns with refill shops, I make use of that and stock up, rather than making special journeys for the purpose. I usually take plastic tubs to the butcher/fishmonger, and use cotton drawstring bags for any fruit/veg that can't just be dumped loose in my pannier. Not that plastic waste is a climate issue as such. Some fruit/veg is grown in my garden, so I can be 100% sure that none of the fresh strawberries/raspberries/blueberries/mangetout I've eaten this year were grown in a heated polytunnel or airfreighted from Morocco.
• I seldom buy electronics (my phone is four years old and still going strong) and intend to repair/reupholster my sofa when it is knackered.
• Social media? 20kgCO2e/year is a drop in the ocean compared to the 1000kgCO2e/year that my mortgage accounts for (yes, running a bank is quite an energy-intensive business).

I'm not doing too bad then.

Well you are a bit pedantic about the passport, but you may be one of the rare ones who gives a shit. But it is not about you is it.

You won't get raspberry yields in a polytunnel by the way. Or find heated ones in Morroco or Spain (or should do in the UK for that matter - the plastic does all the work).

If you have a pannier, you can afford to buy solar panels.

My friend who installs wood burning stoves has never been busier - he is struggling to fit everyone in before Winter sets in, working flat out 6 days a week.

I expect most of the purchasers of the polluting things pay lip service to climate change, but aren’t quite living up to their values. (And I'm in no position to criticise because we already have an Aga, and it will be very well-used if fuel prices escalate as predicted).

It's all very well to call people 'dreadfully thick and selfish' when you have your basic needs met. It's a very different story when you're starving and struggling to put food on the table and it's so worrying to read that more and more people will be so badly affected.

Which is part of why - as well as those whose entire island countries are already on the verge of going under water - we should at the very least, unlike the OP and apparently you, who say she is not being unreasonable - give a shit.

Nobody is suggesting the poor should race out and buy a windfarm, or do anything really other than care about this issue, and do their small bit in terms of recycling of course, and vote for parties that support global measures to reduce the damage already done and being done in the future to the planet.

When climate change destroys the gulf stream (sea current) that warms us in winter, won't winters actually be colder?