To think that no one will give a shit about climate change when they're freezing this winter?

[Turnandfacethestrangechanges]

Just that really. When we have a choice of spanking out £650+ in January for gas and electric or slowly freezing, will people will be less sympathetic to 'green' measures?

Will net zero go out the window when we realise how bloody miserable it is to live without modern comforts and there is civil unrest as a result?

YABU - Don't be ridiculous, climate change is the most important issue
YANBU - How true, I predict a riot

@JassyRadlett I don't care if it is renewable. I'm not 'against' green energy, I just don't care. There needs to be a fast response to this issue that doesn't take 20 years, since prices won't go down.

@Hoowhoowho How true. We are being bent over.

This is all me but it’s just hotter I love my life
don’t give a shit about climate change because I don’t think the general populace can make a difference
we don’t eat meat or dairy either
don’t own a car or go abroad

Thinking that ‘cutting back’ is the answer to climate change is idiocy. What it really means is rich people telling the poor to cut back while they live the life they always lived. Bamboo toothbrushes won’t solve climate change. Science will.

People without imagination and the self proclaimed virtuous will tell you that consumption is bad. What they really mean is the consumption by others is bad.

Average Joe is expected to be punished for high energy prices by freezing this winter. Equally average Joe is expected to ‘cut back’ to solve climate change. Guess what, the animals who are more equal will do neither.

Why stop there with the virtues contest, folks. You could all just live in a mud hut and be done with it.

Green measures would reduce the cost of energy though. Energy costs are dictated by gas costs. If we want cheap (very cheap infact) energy we should move away from household dependence on gas (to electric heating and cooking) and move towards renewable energy sources

Renewables require capital expenditure. Private industry has the money to invest and sovereign wealth funds. The problem there is they need a quick payback. If the quick payback is not there, then the money will go to fund apartment blocks in Singapore or hotels on the Red Sea. Quick paybacks from energy projects require government support in the form of subsidies or free market prices (or a mix of both). There is no free lunch and the consumer taxpayer funds it.

Not a passport holder.
Car used for maximum 3,000 miles per annum.
House at least partly run by renewable energy.
Holidays locally and uses public transport to get there.
Walks to the shops and buys refill container food and products.
Recycles equipment and furniture, rarely buying new.
Rarely on social media.
Limit email use for all purposes to only what is necessary.
Limits, phones, post, etc for only what is necessary.
Does not engage in or support crypto mining.
All new build homes to have wattle and daub except the roofs which should bear a 3m x 2m solar panel.

It is our reliance on gas and oil that is causing energy bills to rise.

Renewable energy is far cheaper. FACT. Solar power is about 1/3rd the cost of gas.

The more renewable energy we have the lower our energy bills will be.

It’s all oil
do governments profit from that?
I’d they do they’re hardly going to change it

this seems an about money
don’t shut down what actually causes the problem

just tax people and fine people for even more money, say your teaching climate change, make more money and no changes

or are governments too good to do that?

It's because people are very thick, and don't realise that climate change causes hotter summers and colder winters. Climate change is the reason winters are now much colder! Arctic warming directly causes extreme cold in parts of the world that don't usually experience cold weather (eg the Texas Freeze that killed 250 people).

Partly it's because in the 80s/90s everyone used the term global warming, which gave the false impression that climate change only makes things hotter. A lot of people who are not well educated about science still believe this!

Sorry for phone typos

Makes sense. According to this, mainly energy companies.

so why did scientists say it was an overall warming up and why does National Geographic still say it here? education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/global-warming/

I do not believe in climate change.

Climate change is a scientifically proven fact. There's no belief required.

It's like saying you don't believe the world is round.

Poverty and green measures aren't so different though.

Can't afford to run a car, so walk or occasional public transport.
Can't afford passport renewal, or holidays.
No food waste, can't afford to waste anything.
Hardly ever put the heating on.
Run the oven as full as possible, and less frequently.
Buy second hand clothes, furniture, etc. Or mend what you have.
Rarely on social media (I'm not going to pretend to understand why but still) because working overtime or hard in the home due to not being able to afford childcare or Labour saving devices.
Home run partly on renewables, maybe not, but run at half previous usage sure due to cost.

Poverty is good for the environment and bad for people. If there is a choice I will choose people. Green measures that can be implemented without drastically reducing human life quality I am all for, but I would rather people have enough money to feed themselves a balanced diet and adequately heat their homes than that we meet some net zero target which we will probably miss due to macro social failures at a corporate and governmental level not through personal failings at the micro social level.

@Turnandfacethestrangechanges

I said I would prioritise it even if I found it hard. I know poverty, I grew up dirt poor, homeless and hungry. I am not without prior experience. We as a (single parent) family were ‘green’ even then. Some things are important.

We cannot afford not to. This energy crisis is caused by scenarios arising from over-reliance on fossil fuels, making us vulnerable to the whims of those countries like Saudi or Russia. Self-sufficiency would make us less of a victim to global politics. Furthermore, renewables are much cheaper, fossil fuels and nuclear are heavily subsidised.

Many people are seeing the Ukraine invasion as being part of a series of ‘resource wars’ provoked by climate change - it’s no coincidence that the areas being fought over have very fertile soil and excellent growing conditions, plenty of other natural resources and rare minerals. There is a reasons countries such as China have been buying up fertile farmland in the US and Africa to hedge against crop failures and starvation. We need to realise that all wealth is derived from the land ultimately! From things that grow and things that are mined. And things don’t grow if there is no rain (or erratic rain at the wrong time), floods, heat or cold at the wrong time. If people don’t care about this they are very foolish, where do they think food comes from?

I disagree that ‘most people’ will struggle to. Some will and some won’t. We live fairly frugally here but I know quite a few people who are very comfortably off, jetting off on multiple long haul holidays, buying new cars, designer bags etc. It is hyperbole to assume everyone is affected by the cost of living crisis, it is hugely unequal. That’s not fair of course and I don’t judge those who are trying to survive, but plenty still have discretionary spending power.

What do these companies sell? Who do they sell to? Why do they sell what they do?

Always start with the market - always

Yes precisely. So in summary: producing green energy requires large capX. Converting home heating, power stations cars requires large capX.

This will only be possible if Governments mandate it and fund most of it. But they won't because most of the companies producing the polluting energy are state owned and the Governments are profiting from it.

Unless people somehow force Governments globally to change this, nothing will change.

Surfing the web less with make no difference whatsoever.

I totally agree op. It’s going to on the scrap heap of priorities. DD has just completed a study that basically confirms that the only changes that will ever be made on climate change is at government level, with laws, investment snd policy. Whether you recycle your Amazon box or cycle to Spain and back to save your carbon footprint is a spec in the (plastic filled) ocean. Big government need to commit to a rolling, well funded efficient Green policy and initiatives.

To be fair they were fire fighting the pandemic, now we have a war and a COL crisis and growing energy crisis. I can’t see it being back on the agenda for a few years at least - best case scenario

Also, the fastest way to respond is by expanding renewable capacity. All other options take too long to build (new nuclear capacity takes decades to go online) or very expensive (buying gas at globally high market prices etc).

We can however easily help. Stop buying fast fashion and land fill. Choose local farm shops over Asda. Support local food and craft producers. Don’t buy plastic unless you absolutely have to. Carry a water bottle. Condense your journeys to as few as possible and cycle or walk If you can.

I do not believe in climate change. Those that shout about it have houses full of luxuries made in countries choking from fumes from factories supplying the world. They also enjoy lovely holidays and electric cars that need lithium farmed by children/adults living in poverty. Reality is what ever fits their agenda for attention.

This is my point too. It is very rare to find someone who truly gives a shit about climate change. We individually tinker around the edges, subconsciously to feel better about ourselves, but it is a rare person who seriously puts fighting climate change at the heart of their lives. That is done not by sitting down in the middle of motorways to protest, but by making personal sacrifices leading to a significantly more restrictive lifestyle - and getting along with it quietly. People do not want to do that, particularly when climate change is paraded as some kind of temporal phenomena that will go away when the news moves onto something else. This is not a criticism of any person - we are more human than we are humane - it is just a sad observation of human nature.

There's always one, isn't there? 😂 Bonkers.

Mumsnet really needs a like button❤will have to do

Not a passport holder.
Car used for maximum 3,000 miles per annum.
House at least partly run by renewable energy.
Holidays locally and uses public transport to get there.
Walks to the shops and buys refill container food and products.
Recycles equipment and furniture, rarely buying new.
Rarely on social media.

A lot of the things to be more eco/greener are often more expensive or more inconvenient. There is a refill shop in the next town to me. Everything they sell us more expensive than the supermarket or High Street. Not slightly more - I mean 2-3 times the price for cereal/pasta/rice/cleaning products/soap/washing up liquid etc.
Bamboo or sustainable clothing is always significantly more expensive.
Public transport in a lot of areas is infrequent and/or expensive. Some rural areas are barely served by public transport at all.
Lots of people advocate facebook/free cycle etc for repurposing things or getting second hand. I use them - I have given away a fridge, and bought or sold a sofa, garden furniture, a bed, dishwasher, chest of drawers. All good but it does rely on having own suitably sized transport which not everyone has.
So a lot of options very much depend on circumstance.
A few years ago people campaigned locally for a multistorey carpark at the station. Lots of people were advocating that people used alternative means to get to the station. But people were dropping children at nursery/school before going to the station to get to work- cycling wasn't practical with very young children and bus timings/routes did not work. One of the most vocal people was a tradesman who used a van for work. No one suggested he had a bike and trailer to transport his equipment or walk with a barrow between clients!