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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Can i have a rant about my Ukrainian guest

658 replies

fakenamefornow · 23/07/2022 19:50

Context, normal family home with teenage school children. Taken in mum and six year old, they're living in our spare bedroom (with ensuite) and living as part of the family. We didn't know them previously and they came directly from Ukraine to us. They're both lovely and generally easy to live with, been with us one month, no regrets. Just need a little anonymous rant to let off steam though.

Ukraine seems better than the UK in every way.

The food. She's a very good cook and makes lovely Ukrainian dinners for us. But British food is terrible, Ukrainian people would never eat so much processed food (she might have a point). They have processed food in Ukraine but only foreigners eat it. Ukrainians always cook fresh.

The health care. She's had three medical emergencies with her child since being here. First one, child had temperature of 38, (bouncing around playing looking in perfect health to me.) She was astonished that a doctor wouldn't immediately come to house to see child. Arranged GP appointment that afternoon (she doesn't drive, I had to take her) . Upset, angry and confused that antibiotics weren't given. She really just couldn't understand it at all. I Ukraine a doctor would have come to the house, day or night, and given medication, you treat small things immediately so they don't get big. Child had three days off school and spent the whole time running around playing.

Child had tiny abscess on gum, no pain or any other symptoms. This necessitated an immediate trip to the out of hours minor injuries unit (still appalled doctor wouldn't come to house). No treatment, told to ring 111 in the morning. I live in an NHS dentistry desert but because they've come from Ukraine a local dentist has taken them on as NHS patients. Had emergency dental appointment next day. Dentist said leave it alone, come back in two months time or if problem develops with it. Mum wanted minor surgery to remove/empty it and antibiotics. More anger and confusion. She can't believe how bad medical care is here (again, she might have a point). Anyway, more time off school for this.

Her appointment for biometrics was messed up (their fault not her's) and she missed the card delivery. So bureaucracy and postal service doesn't work here. She's applied for universal credit, no money yet though, and it seems ridiculous that she should go to the office every week. Nothing works well in this country. Even the streets are difficult to walk on because the pavement is uneven.

I know many Ukrainian have lost good lives to take children to safety and life probably was much better in Ukraine than it will ever be in UK. Hopefully this is temporary and they will be able to return. Her life in Ukraine, was living in a nice flat that was her mother's (mother dead, now hers) with her brother and her kid. She's divorced, kids dad not around, no contact for years. Worked as office manager (small company, not high flying) with good salary.

Really, she's lovely and very grateful.
I just need a little rant about a few things.

OP posts:
ancientgran · 05/11/2022 10:15

xPeaceX · 05/11/2022 08:07

@ancientgran you do realise I hope that that was nothing to do with being irish. It was the times. British people also did this in those times. We all know better now.

She was Irish just like previous posters were quoting Ukrainian. I don't know what Scottish, Welsh or English people were doing as my family are Irish, would be rather arrogant of me to just assume what was happening elsewhere.

Cuppasoupmonster · 05/11/2022 10:25

ancientgran · 05/11/2022 10:15

She was Irish just like previous posters were quoting Ukrainian. I don't know what Scottish, Welsh or English people were doing as my family are Irish, would be rather arrogant of me to just assume what was happening elsewhere.

My dads parents were most definitely very English (and would be horrified if mistaken for anything else 😉) and saw alcohol as the answer for almost anything. They also went on a cruise and left my baby aunt in the cabin all day, only popping back to do her bottle feeds 🤯

xPeaceX · 05/11/2022 11:23

@ancientgran probably not necessary to mention that she was irish. Be careful not to perpetuate negative stereotypes based on family history. History is the operative word. Along with many others, I have had so much assumption projected on to me, that I must like a drink/i dont know when to stop/ i must have hollow legs et cetera. It's tedious. It's inaccurate and the main perps are 2nd and 3rd generation children and grandchildren.

ancientgran · 05/11/2022 13:24

xPeaceX · 05/11/2022 11:23

@ancientgran probably not necessary to mention that she was irish. Be careful not to perpetuate negative stereotypes based on family history. History is the operative word. Along with many others, I have had so much assumption projected on to me, that I must like a drink/i dont know when to stop/ i must have hollow legs et cetera. It's tedious. It's inaccurate and the main perps are 2nd and 3rd generation children and grandchildren.

Sorry but I'll mention my granny being Irish when we are on a thread talking about things people of different nationalities do. We can find they are similar or not. I wasn't saying anything negative about my granny, she was wonderful and happened to believe in alcohol as a cure all, are you giving similar advice to @Cuppasoupmonster whose grandparents seem to have had the same belief and if not why do you feel the need to give it to me? Are we having some sort of censorship about Ireland and Irish people?

xPeaceX · 05/11/2022 13:37

Right. Nobody can stop you but your family history is your family history but it is often present as This Is How The Irish Do It. I'm well aware that you can say whatever you want and will no doubt continue. It might be better to think before you post though.....

ScrollingLeaves · 05/11/2022 13:53

You are not being unreasonable to have a rant. Well done a million times over too for helping her and her child, and for being so patient with her.

That said, we do have broken pavements, a poor health service in many ways, poor bureaucracy, all sorts of things not always working. She is going too far with her complaints of course and ought to be grateful, but in Ukraine they may have assumed the U.K. was all paved in gold. Also, this is probably just her anxiety finding an outlet.

ScrollingLeaves · 05/11/2022 14:25

I have just read through all your posts OP. I think you sound very kind and truly patient. How thoughtful you are being regarding all her remarks.

This is all very interesting. What were her complaints about the school?

I had a friend from Kuwait who felt badly treated after a pregnancy went wrong. She had asked for, but been refused, a scan after an apparent miscarriage. But a scan back in Kuwait found this miscarriage hadn’t fully happened and she had had an ectopic pregnancy partially left behind. There was a danger she would not be able to have a baby after this. She said none of her Kuwait friends in the U.K. can understand how we put up with the healthcare here. I think we are used to it and just always feel so grateful. And, no, we wouldn’t generally shout.

Wannakisstheteacher · 05/11/2022 16:27

Sounds like FIL. Home country much better in every way, yet never moves back there.

It was inevitable most of the Ukrainians would stay here.

Lollygaggle · 08/11/2022 17:45

I am so glad to have read this thread.
we hosted a family and , on the whole , are glad we did it. But......although we set house rules at the start I am sorry we did not put more in.

Mum was a stay at home mum in Ukraine who had not worked for many years and it was obvious from the Universal credit interview she had no intention of working when she got here. We tried to explain that she would be expected to work and that if she wanted to rent somewhere she would have to work .

Myself and partner work full time and despite being shown how to clean , what to use etc she never cleaned except to run a hoover over about three times in 6 months. Despite asking bedclothes were not washed except maybe three times.

I would work long hours ,come home and have to clean , wash and tidy up. My partner works from home and was expected to drop everything to pick up and drop off , even when they were within walking distance of the house but it was raining despite having a bus pass. Now the bus pass has expired they will not pay for transport costs but expect us to still run them everywhere.

child was allowed to stay up until all hours so despite having a seperate sitting room we could not relax or watch tv with content not suitable for their age group without being worried they would come in. Child would go to bed hours after we did. We were expected to provide activities and play games etc with child every evening . Which was lovely in some ways but ,during the week when working full time, then cleaning and tidying up when mum has nothing to do all day except meet friends and go to English lessons , was hard.

Fridges and food cupboards were totally overtaken with food, which didn't get cleared up , or removed when out of date. Tried to talk about cleaning cooker and oven after cooking fatty food but this didn't happen. Child does not eat proper food but grazes on biscuits, sweets , cakes all day , including having food in room.

Mum got up to take take child to school and , apart from twice a week when when to English classes, or meeting with friends then came home, spent all day on phone in bedroom or kitchen until time to pick up child . Clothes were very infrequently washed.

We arranged for various activities for child within walking distance but unless we took them there mum didn't. We engaged with school over homework etc but mum said she had too many things to remember so would not do homework with child or engage with extra curricular activities.

Mum would not read emails or respond or forward to us , despite repeated requests , so things like parents evenings , universal credit meetings got missed. In contrast as she heard on Ukrainian networks about things that were available she would be on to us to arrange them for her. Visits to places that gave away things were embarrassing because of the volume of things taken, far more than other Ukrainian families.

I am vulnerable health wise and they told us they were vaccinated against covid. However when offered boosters for an appointment we had booked with their permission they told us on the day of the appointment they were not going to go. and when we saw vaccination card have good reason to believe it is forged . On discussion it appears there is a good deal of vaccination hesitancy in Ukraine , even amongst doctors. We kept discussing but it also looks as if child is not going to have vaccinations for other diseases either.

Finally mum wanted us to find a house to rent big enough to allow some more of family to come over in the centre of an expensive city to live . All of this whilst we are both full time workers with very long hours. Even after 6 months very little progress had been made by mother or child in English , despite our best efforts she took no initiative or responsibilities and all of our spare time was spent in taking them to places they wanted to go or admin, school homework etc. We kept trying to get her to take responsibility whilst supporting , but the more we helped the more that was demanded . If left to her own devices things just didn't get done which was not fair on child , or us .

There is no doubt there was a fair degree of depression involved with mum and a symptom of that is not wanting to engage , we think having a part time job would have been good for her mental health and there is a large and supportive Ukrainian community and a refugee organisation , both of which we put her in touch with right at the start and both of which have provided many resources and support. But it is also true that there has been very little effort to do anything at home or outside , but to expect us to work , provide all cleaning , housework , activities, school liaison , transport , house searches etc

Several holidays back to Ukraine have been taken. Each time at short notice expecting us to take them to airport during working week . Each time taking time out of school which we have explained is not acceptable . Mum refused to write letter to school so we ended up doing it.

Finally a change in our circumstances necessitated a change in hosts at relatively short notice . We arranged everything with councils help .

Now they've gone a great weight has lifted from us . They had a good while to pack and get ready but the bedrooms are full of rubbish , nothings been washed and the bathroom has taken hours to clean. We had not realised how bad things were because bedrooms and their ensuite were their private space and as we said at the start their responsibility to keep clean.

We are still engaging with school and looking for rented accomodation but have reiterated they have to start to step up. The new hosts are not in a position to help as much other than provide accomodation.

we have , over the years , opened our house to many people . Some deeply traumatised . On the whole we feel we provided a refuge and support to Ukrainians who needed it at a deeply difficult time. However......... it has come at a deep cost to us which we have only realised now they have gone , not only sharing a house for 6 months but also providing every support emotional and practical . I know a symptom of being depressed is an inability to look outside oneself but I cannot help but feel a little angry that someone would expect so much of two people , whilst inputting so little, to not see people older than yourself , working full time long hours are not there to clean , tidy , provide child care etc and that you should do something other than ask for stuff , visit friends and go to the occasional English class.

I feel better for that.

woodhill · 08/11/2022 17:53

You are far too nice Lolly

ScrollingLeaves · 08/11/2022 18:16

Lollygaggle· Today 17:45

No one could have done more than you and your DH. You have been saintly. I cannot imagine how you survived six months while remaining so kind. They were lucky to have you, especially the child. You are a good, kind person, Lolly. They certainly took advantage of your kindness. It seems they just don’t know a more appropriate way to behave. Also, as you say, she seems to have responded to this trauma with helplessness. I hope you have a lovely Christmas now.

Heatherland77 · 08/11/2022 22:07

Lollygaggle, you are an incredible person. I share your frustrations as a host and you've had a bad deal with this person. It's been a clash of values and expectations for so many hosts and guests. We know there are British people who'd act just the same and you don't know what you're walking into until they arrive.
I'm a trauma life coach and I'm mindful that learned helplessness is an issue for traumatised people. The more they're enabled, the deeper they go into helplessness and expecting others to pick up the pieces. I blame social media for prolonging the helplessness through misinformation, gossip and opinions about hosts that are far from helpful.
Be proud of everything you've done and take a well earned rest, maybe for a long time! Enjoy your Christmas, enjoy your home just you and hubby and remember you fulfilled your 'contract' with the council and went above and beyond.

red4321 · 08/11/2022 22:42

Lollygaggle, you are an incredible person.

Truly. I'd have struggled with doing this for one day, let alone for six months. Your Ukrainian family have been very lucky to have received the level of support you've given, it's extremely generous and unselfish of you.

Pseudonymminymie · 08/11/2022 22:50

Agree with the comments above. Apologies to OP that I haven't RTFT, but antibiotic resistance? Being sensible/ cautious about prescribing seems utterly reasonable to me. Responsible healthcare really.

Isthisexpected · 11/11/2022 07:49

Lolly we have had a similar experience but have not taken on childcare as you did and bought them an umbrella! Having to very firmly and bluntly reiterate do X do not do Y several times a week has been very tiresome.

Trainbear · 11/11/2022 08:47

The fact that until the invasionUkraine was a well developed first world country, and such for a while with a good healthcare and welfare system is a big issue when refugees come to a country which should be the same but in many ways fails.
Had they come from a third world country with nothing like the health, welfare and opportunity that we have they may have felt differently. No doubt a lot of other problems would have happened though.

MissyB1 · 11/11/2022 15:29

Trainbear · 11/11/2022 08:47

The fact that until the invasionUkraine was a well developed first world country, and such for a while with a good healthcare and welfare system is a big issue when refugees come to a country which should be the same but in many ways fails.
Had they come from a third world country with nothing like the health, welfare and opportunity that we have they may have felt differently. No doubt a lot of other problems would have happened though.

Good point.

Gumreduction · 14/11/2022 15:44

fakenamefornow · 21/09/2022 15:49

Oh, and shouting at people IS in fact working for her, despite what I have said about it not working here. She does immediately get medical appointments, extra attention for her kid at school etc.

Good for her. I’d do the same for my child

fakenamefornow · 14/11/2022 18:17

Gumreduction · 14/11/2022 15:44

Good for her. I’d do the same for my child

I don't think you should go round shouting at people.
On all her multiple trips to the doctor in the last five months she still hasn't been given antibiotics despite all her shouting.

OP posts:
fakenamefornow · 14/11/2022 18:18

Gumreduction · 14/11/2022 15:44

Good for her. I’d do the same for my child

I don't think you should go round shouting at people.
On all her multiple trips to the doctor in the last five months she still hasn't been given antibiotics despite all her shouting.

OP posts:
Gumreduction · 14/11/2022 18:51

So your relationship with her clearly hasn’t improved?

fakenamefornow · 14/11/2022 19:29

Our relationship isn't bad, i actually quite like her.
She does lots of things that irritate me (like burn a big pan ring on my wooden kitchen counter) but I'm sure I do lots of things that irritate her. She probably rants about me to the Ukrainian community here. She does lots of things I disapprove of as well, like shouting a teachers. The biggest thing that annoys me is her refusal to get a job, save money and move on.

OP posts:
Gumreduction · 15/11/2022 08:26

fakenamefornow · 14/11/2022 19:29

Our relationship isn't bad, i actually quite like her.
She does lots of things that irritate me (like burn a big pan ring on my wooden kitchen counter) but I'm sure I do lots of things that irritate her. She probably rants about me to the Ukrainian community here. She does lots of things I disapprove of as well, like shouting a teachers. The biggest thing that annoys me is her refusal to get a job, save money and move on.

Is she planning on staying in the UK?

that is a lot that annoys you - refuses to get job, “move on” (what do you mean by that?), shouts and, worst of all, leaves marks on kitchen counter!

fakenamefornow · 15/11/2022 09:47

Gumreduction · 15/11/2022 08:26

Is she planning on staying in the UK?

that is a lot that annoys you - refuses to get job, “move on” (what do you mean by that?), shouts and, worst of all, leaves marks on kitchen counter!

She says she going to stay in the UK forever. This surprises me as she doesn't have a single good word to say about the place or the people. I think a lot of this (or at least some, our public services are shit) is bravado, she tries to portray Ukraine as a rich sophisticated place very different from the countries around it, much better than Poland or much of Europe.
As for get a job and move on, my house is emergency accommodation for six months to a year, (this was made clear before she came) plenty of time to save money get a deposit together for your own place. I also told her what kind of jobs were easily available and realistic to get before she came, I was very honest about the state of the UK although admittedly, I didn't realise our public services were as bad as they are in comparison to other places.
I think there might be some misinformation circulating in the Ukrainian community. She seems to think that if she doesn't get a job, the council will house her in a flat/house and if she does get a job, they won't. Also, she doesn't like any of the jobs she's been offered, cafe, supermarket, factory, she says these jobs aren't for Ukrainian people so she won't take any of them.

@Gumreduction
Do you really go around shouting at people?

OP posts:
fakenamefornow · 15/11/2022 09:48

Gumreduction · 15/11/2022 08:26

Is she planning on staying in the UK?

that is a lot that annoys you - refuses to get job, “move on” (what do you mean by that?), shouts and, worst of all, leaves marks on kitchen counter!

She says she going to stay in the UK forever. This surprises me as she doesn't have a single good word to say about the place or the people. I think a lot of this (or at least some, our public services are shit) is bravado, she tries to portray Ukraine as a rich sophisticated place very different from the countries around it, much better than Poland or much of Europe.
As for get a job and move on, my house is emergency accommodation for six months to a year, (this was made clear before she came) plenty of time to save money get a deposit together for your own place. I also told her what kind of jobs were easily available and realistic to get before she came, I was very honest about the state of the UK although admittedly, I didn't realise our public services were as bad as they are in comparison to other places.
I think there might be some misinformation circulating in the Ukrainian community. She seems to think that if she doesn't get a job, the council will house her in a flat/house and if she does get a job, they won't. Also, she doesn't like any of the jobs she's been offered, cafe, supermarket, factory, she says these jobs aren't for Ukrainian people so she won't take any of them.

@Gumreduction
Do you really go around shouting at people?

OP posts: