Can i have a rant about my Ukrainian guest

[fakenamefornow]

Context, normal family home with teenage school children. Taken in mum and six year old, they're living in our spare bedroom (with ensuite) and living as part of the family. We didn't know them previously and they came directly from Ukraine to us. They're both lovely and generally easy to live with, been with us one month, no regrets. Just need a little anonymous rant to let off steam though.

Ukraine seems better than the UK in every way.

The food. She's a very good cook and makes lovely Ukrainian dinners for us. But British food is terrible, Ukrainian people would never eat so much processed food (she might have a point). They have processed food in Ukraine but only foreigners eat it. Ukrainians always cook fresh.

The health care. She's had three medical emergencies with her child since being here. First one, child had temperature of 38, (bouncing around playing looking in perfect health to me.) She was astonished that a doctor wouldn't immediately come to house to see child. Arranged GP appointment that afternoon (she doesn't drive, I had to take her) . Upset, angry and confused that antibiotics weren't given. She really just couldn't understand it at all. I Ukraine a doctor would have come to the house, day or night, and given medication, you treat small things immediately so they don't get big. Child had three days off school and spent the whole time running around playing.

Child had tiny abscess on gum, no pain or any other symptoms. This necessitated an immediate trip to the out of hours minor injuries unit (still appalled doctor wouldn't come to house). No treatment, told to ring 111 in the morning. I live in an NHS dentistry desert but because they've come from Ukraine a local dentist has taken them on as NHS patients. Had emergency dental appointment next day. Dentist said leave it alone, come back in two months time or if problem develops with it. Mum wanted minor surgery to remove/empty it and antibiotics. More anger and confusion. She can't believe how bad medical care is here (again, she might have a point). Anyway, more time off school for this.

Her appointment for biometrics was messed up (their fault not her's) and she missed the card delivery. So bureaucracy and postal service doesn't work here. She's applied for universal credit, no money yet though, and it seems ridiculous that she should go to the office every week. Nothing works well in this country. Even the streets are difficult to walk on because the pavement is uneven.

I know many Ukrainian have lost good lives to take children to safety and life probably was much better in Ukraine than it will ever be in UK. Hopefully this is temporary and they will be able to return. Her life in Ukraine, was living in a nice flat that was her mother's (mother dead, now hers) with her brother and her kid. She's divorced, kids dad not around, no contact for years. Worked as office manager (small company, not high flying) with good salary.

Really, she's lovely and very grateful.
I just need a little rant about a few things.

I would not ask her to leave. She's criticising the UK just as she finds it and comparing it unfavorably to her home. Others have said upthread that Ukrainians just say what they think more than we do and I'm sure she doesn't mean anything by it.
Besides, she has no money to leave and I'm sure she would get her own place if she could afford it, who wouldn't prefer that to living in somebody else's home in a foreign country were nothing seems work.

Ofgs don't be bloody ridiculous. The idea that disagreement on trans issues will land you in a gulag is hysterical nonsense

Not read the full thread but the criticism about the UK reminds me of a woman I used to know.

She came to live in England from another country within the UK and would criticise England constantly. She criticised the water, the shops, the bakeries, the chip shops, the schools, the English on a whole … in the end I asked her why she chose to live in England considering she hated it so much. Used to drive me insane. I couldn’t imagine going to another country and constantly criticising it, it’s so bloody rude

I agree with this.

Massive apologies, wrong thread 😳😳

@entropynow Why don't you talk about what you know? If you actually read the legislation already enacted in Scotland, it's very reminiscent of the good old days of Stalin. Fancy 7 years in prison for showing or distributing material? And your house can be searched for any compromising material too.
"(8)...the ways in which a person may communicate material to another person are by—
(a)displaying, publishing or distributing the material,
(b)giving, sending, showing or playing the material to another person,
(c)making the material available to another person in any other way.
(9)A person who commits an offence under this section is liable—
(a)on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum (or both), or
(b)on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years or a fine (or both)."

It’s just cultural differences - I’m from Eastern Europe originally and my mum was shocked when we first moved here. Mainly about how kids had no coats/tights on in winter! And how kids ate bland separate food at 5pm, we always ate together at 7-8pm.

The heating thing still kills me - I find anything under 24 degrees cold and no number of jumpers will un-freeze my fingers if the room is 17 degrees. When I visit my grandparents in my home country you can walk around in a tank top and shorts in their flat - and if it’s not a very cold winter you have to open the windows at night or it’s too hot to sleep. Not saying this system is perfect but seems to make more sense than every household having their own boiler and paying £££ for heating. I guess over there the state sort of has to provide it, if you couldn’t afford to put your boiler on like in the UK you’d just freeze to death.

Also people love moaning! But maybe not to the person hosting you….it must be really hard for them though

I don't understand the heating thing - is the heating turned on in the summer if the temperature falls below 24 degrees? And it's a disaster for the environment (global warming). This refusal to wear clothes to keep warm is something that HAS to change. It looks as though it's only the rise in energy costs which will persuade people (both in Eastern Europe and in the West) to put a jumper on. We have a guest from France at the moment, and they've been putting the heater in their room on overnight - in the middle of August FGS. They also put the washing machine on for a 3 and a half hour wash, for a few t-shirts.

@Toboggan it’s called district heating and it’s not an environmental disaster, it’s far more economical(people pay a monthly set modest amount regardless of how much heating or hot water they use).
However there’s no option to not have the heating 24/7 in the winter in many countries in Eastern Europe, as all the pipes would freeze and burst!

I used to work with a Greek bloke, he did nothing but slag off the UK, the culture, the food, the doctors/hospitals/schools, everything was better in Greece. We were known to be the worse country in Europe apparently. When I knew him he'd lived her for 30 years, brought his wife from Greece to live here and raised his kid here. I think I asked him once why he didn't live in Greece, can't remember what he said.

Why do you say it's not an environmental disaster?
Even with district heating, surely they could turn it down and that would be better for the environment?

Can you explain WHY it's not bad for the environment for people to use so much heating?

It may be cheap for the user - for example if the government is subsidising the cost. But because of that it's encouraging and enabling (or in this case forcing?) people to use far more energy than they need.
And Eastern Europe isn't so cold that the pipes will burst if the heating isn't on 24/7. You've just made that up.
From a world data organisation: "In Ukraine, it is coolest at night in January with -5.8 °C"
That's not particularly cold. It's quite often that cold where I live, in Scotland, and I never have the heating on at night.

@Toboggan that’s completely wrong about winter temperatures, periods of minus 20 or more are completely normal in the winter in Ukraine.
from www.climatestotravel.com/climate/ukraine

Winter is cold in much of Ukraine: the average temperatures are below freezing (0 °C or 32 °F) in inland areas and around freezing on the coast, while they exceed this value in Crimea. Snow covers Kiev for about 80 days per year (which were about one hundred in the previous decades, when the climate was colder).

The coldest periods are those in which the Siberian Anticyclone settles in the country: in these situations, the temperature can drop to -20 °C (-4 °F) or even below. The cold records are around -30/-35 °C (-22/-31 °F) in inland areas and around -25/-28 °C (-13/-18 °F) on the coast.

During the coldest periods the sea can freeze, sometimes in the Odessa Bay, more often in the Sea of Azov, which is shallow and closed by the Crimea, and only during the coldest winters, as in February 2012, also in Crimea.

Could you explain why heating indoors so high isn't bad for the environment though?
Also, surely pipes can be insulated to prevent bursting?

Nobody says district heating/heat networks have to provide temperatures of 30C(which they do in some areas of former USSR), but as far as I know sometimes the resulting temperatures of over 20C indoors could be better for efficiency and cost than under 20C - however I am not an expert (heard from an expert but can't explain the workings - maybe it's similar to how turning the heating on an off constantly in a damp solid wall house is less efficient than running it constantly but low, because it's the initial burst which uses up so much more power - like going on only one mile trips in your car; might also depend on the type of fuel used)

anyway, people who are interested can find out for themselves

www.gov.uk/guidance/heat-networks-overview

Heat networks form an important part of our plan to reduce carbon and cut heating bills for customers (domestic and commercial). They are one of the most cost-effective ways of reducing carbon emissions from heating, and their efficiency and carbon-saving potential increases as they grow and connect to each other. They provide a unique opportunity to exploit larger scale – and often lower cost – renewable and recovered heat sources that otherwise cannot be used. It is estimated by the CCC that around 18% of UK heat will need to come from heat networks by 2050 if the UK is to meet its carbon targets cost effectively.

@Kendodd in countries where minus 10 to minus 30 is normal in winter of course pipes are insulated, but insulation isn't going to prevent water from freezing at minus 10. Modern heat systems are much more advanced and don't use the fuel as afree for all, they all work closely with meteorologists and sensors adjust the heating temperatures if the weather suddenly gets much warmer.
Anyway, Google is available for anyone wishing to be educated on the subject.

The fact remains that people from Scandinavian and Eastern European countries are usually unused to cold houses and high winter energy bills, because the systems are so much more efficient over there, so it comes as a shock for them (not just in UK, the situation can be even worse in Spain or Italy in the winter and so on).
I imagine the OP might have trouble with her guest complaining of the cold if the heating isn't on 24/7 in the winter.

My guest has bought a room thermometer (or rather I bought it as it was put in the trolley while shopping). I'm told in Ukraine the landlord must provide good heating in the winter.
I took my guest to a Ukrainian Independence Day event and was chatting with other hosts. It seems lots are very worried about winter heating and one said her electricity use has doubled already because of tumble drying constantly. I think my experience isn't unique, lots of guests are unhappy with the standard of living here and poor public services, healthcare seems to be a particularly issue.

@hereyougoagain Just because it's occasionally very cold in Ukraine (it is only occasional) doesn't mean that the heating should be kept on at 24 degrees 24 hours a day all year, does it? Presumably someone has access to both an on/off switch and to the weather forecast? And it's hard to believe that having the heat on at 24 degrees is more energy efficient than having it on at 18 degrees, for instance.
Wear a warm jumper and use a warm duvet, fgs.
I have no sympathy for the guest on the heating issue. If you emigrate you're likely to be happier and more successful in your new life if you take on board other ways of thinking and doing - rather than assuming that the old way was the right way. But the OP should talk this through with her guest.

So where I came from, it was switched in between October/May and off for summer. I DO wear jumpers in winter, as well as fleece trousers and thermal socks. But if my heating is below 22, my hands get really cold and I can’t work properly (I have a desk job). I find it strange that a lot of British people have nice cars/expensive stuff yet don’t heat their houses above 17. It’s the one thing I never scrimp on. I bring a shawl and slippers to people’s houses as I can never get used to the cold!

I actually think the eastern european way works out quite efficient, though yes sometimes it is overkill and you’re roasting at night (lots of people don’t have knobs on their radiators).

*switched ON

At 18 my hands would be icy cold, and no amount of jumpers/“getting used to it” is going to change that. Some of us are just built that way!

@kc431 Perhaps you have a circulation problem or similar? Or perhaps the constant over-heating has affected you? How do you cope in the summer, if you need your heating to be on at over 22 degrees in the winter? Certainly in Scotland it's often cooler than 22 degrees in the summer. It certainly is at the moment.

I'm afraid that some of these host/guest relationships will break down this winter as the demands of Ukrainians for constant high heat etc. come up against the panic of those paying the bills as energy costs soar.

@Toboggan probably, but what can you do about bad circulation? I don’t think 22 is over-heating, the UK has their own perception of a “comfortable temperature” just like other countries have theirs. Doesn’t mean either is right or wrong, just different. I used to be quite tubby and ever since I became a healthy weight I’ve just felt a lot colder. Normal thyroid. The 22 degrees is more for when I’m working/sedentary, it’s 16 at night. Obviously I haven’t used the heating this summer! But I’ve really enjoyed the heatwaves and it’s making me want to move to Spain/Australia/Miami 🌞🌞🌞