Can i have a rant about my Ukrainian guest

[fakenamefornow]

Context, normal family home with teenage school children. Taken in mum and six year old, they're living in our spare bedroom (with ensuite) and living as part of the family. We didn't know them previously and they came directly from Ukraine to us. They're both lovely and generally easy to live with, been with us one month, no regrets. Just need a little anonymous rant to let off steam though.

Ukraine seems better than the UK in every way.

The food. She's a very good cook and makes lovely Ukrainian dinners for us. But British food is terrible, Ukrainian people would never eat so much processed food (she might have a point). They have processed food in Ukraine but only foreigners eat it. Ukrainians always cook fresh.

The health care. She's had three medical emergencies with her child since being here. First one, child had temperature of 38, (bouncing around playing looking in perfect health to me.) She was astonished that a doctor wouldn't immediately come to house to see child. Arranged GP appointment that afternoon (she doesn't drive, I had to take her) . Upset, angry and confused that antibiotics weren't given. She really just couldn't understand it at all. I Ukraine a doctor would have come to the house, day or night, and given medication, you treat small things immediately so they don't get big. Child had three days off school and spent the whole time running around playing.

Child had tiny abscess on gum, no pain or any other symptoms. This necessitated an immediate trip to the out of hours minor injuries unit (still appalled doctor wouldn't come to house). No treatment, told to ring 111 in the morning. I live in an NHS dentistry desert but because they've come from Ukraine a local dentist has taken them on as NHS patients. Had emergency dental appointment next day. Dentist said leave it alone, come back in two months time or if problem develops with it. Mum wanted minor surgery to remove/empty it and antibiotics. More anger and confusion. She can't believe how bad medical care is here (again, she might have a point). Anyway, more time off school for this.

Her appointment for biometrics was messed up (their fault not her's) and she missed the card delivery. So bureaucracy and postal service doesn't work here. She's applied for universal credit, no money yet though, and it seems ridiculous that she should go to the office every week. Nothing works well in this country. Even the streets are difficult to walk on because the pavement is uneven.

I know many Ukrainian have lost good lives to take children to safety and life probably was much better in Ukraine than it will ever be in UK. Hopefully this is temporary and they will be able to return. Her life in Ukraine, was living in a nice flat that was her mother's (mother dead, now hers) with her brother and her kid. She's divorced, kids dad not around, no contact for years. Worked as office manager (small company, not high flying) with good salary.

Really, she's lovely and very grateful.
I just need a little rant about a few things.

Yes. Government gives hosts 'thank you' payment each month. Guest has been with me three months now and I've just started receiving it.

You're much more patient than I am Op. I do think you need to have a very honest conversation with her though as you don't want things to break down completely.

I'd turn the heating off and tell her to put on a jumper / use a blanket and only have the heating on when it's absolutely necessary as it's just so expensive.

How long are you prepared to host her? If it's only for another couple of months, then you also need to tell her that so that she can properly plan and prepare herself for living independently (including saving money).

I think I would give her the two months' notice - she joined you in June, yes? So end of November brings it up to nearly the six months, and she'll have plenty of time to settle in before Christmas.

I don't understand about the driving her about; is that really an expectation? Seems a bit steep for a payment which is less money than you'd get for renting out solely a room in your home but which is to include bills. Also, if somebody in the household is over 18, they chip in for food or do their own completely. Anything else is just too hard to sustain.

Either way, she needs to get herself together and get a job, and you need to get an end date because codependency is bad for everybody.

Have read all of your posts OP and so much of this is cultural. My boyfriend is Polish and so I think certain things are fairly similar culturally. The amount of moaning about certain things I would just never think to complain about. It’s too hot, it’s too cold, the heating is on, the windows are open… I grew up in a house with no heating and survived perfectly well. I do think sometimes Brits have too much of a tendency to make do when they deserve better but sometimes the alternative and the moaning does just drive you batty.

As a GP, much of this doesn't surprise me. The amount of unnecessary testing that goes on in many Eastern European countries, presumably money driven. GPs often joke that it must be fantastic to be a Polish gynaecologist as they have managed to persuade young healthy women that they need annual smears, scans, internal examinations etc - all completely unnecessary and basically a licence to print money. Many of my Polish patients go home to continue having it done yearly.

@passport123

My guest is particularly frustrated and bewildered by the lack of antibiotics, she insists her child needs them and now has a large stash delivered from Ukraine. She knows we don't take them in the same way and is lost for an answer as to how British children survive and recover from illnesses she says are impossible to get better from without antibiotics. She did say something interesting the other day when she returned from the GP with the slightest sniffle and no antibiotic prescription. She was very angry and said that if she was a government minister, she would have got them, no minister, no medicine in the UK. @

The thing is, she's been told by every doctor she has ever seen (and she has paid them for this advice), that her child needs antibiotics for every cold. So if she now accepts the correct explanation, she has to accept that she's been given bad advice in the past. Very difficult psychologically to do that. And to be fair a decade ago we were dishing out more antibiotics in the UK than we do now. Doesn't make it good practice though.

Medical care is free in Ukraine apparently.
Including home visits for the slightest illness, annual check ups for adults and twice yearly for children. I looked at the numbers, they have more doctors per head than us despite it being a fairly low status job and poorly paid compared to most jobs.
Life expectancy and child mortality is terrible there though.

I'm a host with my own thread somewhere. You do know there is a government website you can quote back to the council woman in terms of asking for contributions towards household expenses and no expectation of buying their food? In reality we paid all expenses for months because of UC delays but once that kicked in got them a fridge and a cupboard and now expect them to buy their own food and cook it.

It sounds like you need to be far more direct. Do not leave the back door open it wastes energy and money. No fluff!

When I saw their treatment of disabled children and animals I lost some of my sympathy. But I wasn't surprised

@fakenamefornow my parents have a Ukrainian family staying and the mother is a paediatrician, my parents are hospital doctors so as you can imagine the health systems have been thoroughly discussed!
The NHS is in a dire state- access to a dentist and a lot of GPs is terrible. Once you’re ‘in the system’ things are often better but still utterly unacceptable so their attitude is fair really.
However- their guest says the system there is also not great. Money talks- you are expected to pay especially for certain treatments/operations so can be bankrupted due to health. They also do very little preventative medicine (eg mammograms, bowel screening etc) so their medicine is v reactive to issues rather than proactive hence the high morbidity and mortality compared to the UK. It also varies hugely between areas and rural areas can have very little access to variety of treatments and you’d be expected to get yourself to the nearest big hospital to get a more specialist service.
That is what one doctor has told our family so please don’t batter me if not true but I don’t know why she would lie!

Is your guest upper/upper-middle class in Ukraine? Cause her descriptions really don't match what I've heard from my colleagues who are just regular professionals (to be fair they have moved pre-covid, pre-war so things might be different and different areas)

She worked as low level retail style managerial job. I would guess the sort of job she had would pay about £28,000 - £30,000 here. It paid a lot in Ukraine though, 3x a doctor salary because it was for an international company.

I mentioned upthread that I'd come to the conclusion that Ukraine spends the majority of its health budget on the well, whereas we spend the majority of ours on the unwell. I've also seen the TV pictures of the care for disabled people there although I don't think we should be to smug about it considering the treatment of people at Winterbourne View.

If I'm right, I don't think that system is without merit, annual health checks for people etc. After all the well are the majority and you are keeping the majority happy. Assuming annual health checks and attention for the slightest thing doesn't fule health anxiety or lead to unnecessary treatment that makes health worse though.

I worked in development many years ago and there is a theory of health economics that with limited money for healthcare, spend it on the fit, adult population. Beyond basic vaccine programmes for children, don't 'waste' money on sick young children or the elderly because they will eat up your entire health budget and die anyway. Spend your health care money on the economically active and useful as these are the people the country needs most. That's one reason why AIDS was so devastating in Africa, it took out the fit young workers, and left their elderly and children who had been dependent on them.

Ukraine isn't a developing country though and neither are we, we should have good healthcare here with easy access, it's an absolute scandal imo that we don't. Shame on us.

From what I understand, Ukraine was already in the process of huge reforms when they were invaded. So some of the problems with the medical system that people are reporting may well have been planned to be part of that.

But then that’s something Russia really didn’t like - the fact that Ukraine was modernising and getting itself together, so moving away from them.

I only say that because doctors taking payments when they aren’t supposed to etc sounds like something that could have come under that anti corruption umbrella. And those of us saying “Ukraine is like xyz” are going to have varying accounts from different people depending on how things currently are in their area.

Regarding cultural differences, is shouting at people common in Ukraine?
I did read, before she arrived, that Ukrainians talk louder that British people and this can be seen as shouting. She's shouted at the doctor, the dentist and now the schoolteacher. I've told her shouting won't get her anywhere in the UK and will be counter productive. She protests that these people don't do there jobs properly so she gets angry and you have to shout to get anything done. She wants to complain to the 'government' about the school.

Listening to her makes me wonder if we should actually be more like that (not shouting at people). As a nation we've just meekly accepted a decline in public services and an increase in poverty. Maybe we should have more of a 'take no shit' attitude.

Oh, and shouting at people IS in fact working for her, despite what I have said about it not working here. She does immediately get medical appointments, extra attention for her kid at school etc.

I am reading all this and similar posts on other sites and I'm beginning to wonder if our Ukrainian guests are in fact Ukrainian. Apart from being flabbergasted that doctors don't do home visits, they seem to show very few of the traits reported by others. They talk relatively quietly, share food, keep the house clean it's never been so clean!! and are generally friendly and generous. Both adults had jobs within 3 weeks of arriving with no help from me they just found them and the teenager is working his guts out at school while continuing to do online lessons with his Ukrainian maths teacher. His English is still poor but he's getting commendations for maths and art. A bit phased by Macbeth though poor lad

OP whatever the lady from the council says you can definitely ask them to make reasonable contributions towards utility bills. You don't have to drive them about. They are expected to buy their own food. Clear them a shelf or two and point them towards the nearest supermarket.

Are you getting the £350 now because if not then the council are being hopeless. If you want to PM me which council it is I'll see if I can find anything out. I finally found the application form for ours buried deep in their website but once I managed to submit it they've been fine and provided I resend it every month by the 5th it turns up on the 13th.

Very true, I never worry about being 'that parent' for this reason! The squeaky wheel gets oiled.
I always kick up a fuss if necessary. There's a don't complain, doctor/teacher knows best attitude here that does no one any favours.

At the surgery where I work, shouting at reception would get you at minimum a warning - repeat it and you can find another GP - at maximum depending on how threatening she was the police would be called and she'd be off the list immediately. And it didn't work - she didn't get antibiotics.

She got the appointment though @passport123, which is a lot more than anyone else gets these days!

and wasted her time!

I have seen shouting or being difficult work for people in the short term. But longer term they get a reputation and, although they will still get what they're entitled to, no-one will go the extra mile for them or give them any extra help, information or support that those of us who treat people respectfully can get.

I completely agree @passport123 as well we wasting the doctor's time and taking an appointment from someone who actually needed it, no doubt! Doesn't stop her shouting from working though!

I agree @Davros that you should always treat people respectfully, wasn't meaning anything other than that. Just that often those who shout the loudest get heard & it usually takes quite some time before that stops working (annoyingly)!

JacquelineCarlysle you're not wrong and some play the short game, although I'm not sure they know they're doing it!

In terms of expectations of the accommodation, I would have a look at the Government site:
www.gov.uk/guidance/homes-for-ukraine-scheme-frequently-asked-questions

If you look at :Am I expected to provide meals too or just accommodation?
you will see that you're not expected to provide food, and can ask for a contribution, and that you can ask for a reasonable contribution towards water gas and electricity - you are certainly not required to keep your house really hot for them, and you are certainly allowed to ask for contributions.

We haven't put the heating on yet - we're just all putting more jumpers on -this info doesn't suggest that you need to keep your house any different from normal.