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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To enjoy watching them die?

204 replies

PersonaNonGarter · 22/07/2022 19:27

Fly papers - God, but I just love it when they fill up with flies.

The more stuck flies the better.

YABU - and probably a psychopath
YANBU - DIE FLY DIE

OP posts:
LizzieW1969 · 22/07/2022 22:41

Sally090807 · 22/07/2022 21:08

Mosquitos, what purpose do they have?

I was wondering that. I have a particular loathing for those blighters. (I’ve had malaria, though, so this isn’t surprising really.)

Although I still take no particular pleasure in the process of killing them, I’d much rather they just didn’t exist at all.

Same with wasps, although I can see that they do have a place in the ecosystem.

OakTreex · 22/07/2022 22:46

I do kill spiders, or have in the past if I've felt I needed to get rid of them. I'm too scared to get close enough to trap them or pick them up. I feel a mixture of guilt and relief afterwards - not something I enjoy. If they're far enough away and not in my immediate space I will leave them alone.

I sort of think OP just means it's satisfying to see the flies are being caught rather than necessarily delighting in death!

Justcallmebebes · 22/07/2022 22:56

I came off this thread because it gave me the rage. Every living creature has a purpose and to enjoy it's painful death is sick. Coming back, I'm heartened to see the majority agree with me.

Do you know that when an ant colony is under attack, the first thing they do is rally to protect their young. Want to take a mallet to them now?

Phoenix76 · 22/07/2022 23:02

Like it or not, bugs/insects are essential to the planet. We, however, are not and people like you who take pleasure in destroying living creatures are the reason why the human race is doomed- how about that!

CallOnMe · 22/07/2022 23:09

I came off this thread because it gave me the rage. Every living creature has a purpose and to enjoy it's painful death is sick. Coming back, I'm heartened to see the majority agree with me.

Enjoying any animals suffering is just plain sick and I’d like to think these posters are trolls but then I remember how many people are trophy hunters or animal abusers in RL.

It wasn’t that long ago that entire races of humans (African slavery, holocausts etc) were treated just as appalling just because they were beneath them and insignificant to them, so it’s unfortunately not so far fetched that people actually think like this still about animals.

Fortunately most of us aren’t sadistic and don’t enjoy anything or anyone suffering.

WiddlinDiddlin · 22/07/2022 23:31

The casual ignorance in this thread is astonishing.

I am very wary of any suggesting that insects/crustaceans/molluscs can't feel pain.

First of all.. define pain. Is my pain like your pain, how much pain am I in right now if I tell you its a 7 out of 10 and I am taking Fentanyl via a patch daily - have you ANY idea? Most of you won't, some of you might, a tiny bit. Would you know to look at me sitting here typing this - no, not unless you know me very very well.

And we're the same species (I assume).

Pain serves a function - don't touch that/don't let that touch you/move away/stop doing that.

To cause avoidance, pain must be in some way aversive (how do I extrapolate that the quadrants of learning theory apply to insects - see Ramirez, training butterflies via positive reinforcement. if one quadrant applies, potentially, they all apply). - otherwise why WOULD you avoid it?

It is a very simple system - that hurts, don't do it. That limb is falling off, don't jump on it.

Why would there be another system to tell something 'don't do that', it would be MORE complex, require more memory, more logic, more innate behaviour than a simple 'ow, fuck, i wont do that'.

Now do they feel pain the same way we do, no, highly unlikely. Is it AS painful as it would be for us if the same thing happened to us... who the fuck knows... does it make them miserable, depressed, angry and ranting on internet forums like it does us.. again doubtful.. but who knows.

But again - we don't KNOW if we each experience pain the same way as one another, are my toothaches as vile as yours, are my burning joints as agonising as his, who knows.

Not that long ago, we thought lobsters and fish didn't experience pain, within MY lifetime, there have been vets trained and in practice who genuinely believe dogs didn't suffer certain types of pain or that it was acceptable to ignore animal pain.

We commonly view insects as being less advanced, less developed than we are, and thats really showing your ignorance - these are highly specialised creatures, they are INCREDIBLE.. at what they do.

A flys compound eye can see a wider field of vision than yours, processes light better, processes multiple images far FAR faster and sees colours you do not.

Some of the jumping spiders see so well they can recognise faces, not just 'thats a human face' but 'thats a human face I know' vs 'that is a human face I do not know'.

The mantis shrimp can see colours nothing else can, they have the most complex eye on the planet, they have 12 to 16 types of photoreceptor (you btw, have just 3) and can TUNE their eyes colour sensitivity long wave-length to adapt to the environment.

These creatures are incredible and HIGHLY specialised - we need lots of them, they pollinate, consume each other, recycle dead things and they are the bottom of the food chain, feeding many many species.

Without bees and wasps and flies and spiders and shrimp and krill and so on... we'd be overloaded with dead bodies of all manner of species, have no birds, no whales, no bats, amphibians, many reptiles, and fish would be lost...

Without any insects, the planet is fucked.

Without us - it will succeed - we're a lumbering generalising non-specialist, easily adaptable species - we take a lot and we give fuck all back.

Without us.. the world would revert to a lush green planet very rapidly indeed, we're about the only species you could wipe out without any negative effect at all.

So yes when I hear people killing insects for fun and think thats just great, teach that to their kids too... it does make me feel sick. You don't know how stupid you are.

MrsSkylerWhite · 22/07/2022 23:48

@WiddlinDiddlin

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

that’s the thread closed. No-one, apart from very stupid people, can argue with that.

RichardOsmansXRaySpecs · 22/07/2022 23:56

Well said WiddlinDiddlin, well bloody said 👏

DoncasterHombre · 23/07/2022 00:14

@WiddlinDiddlin

Absolutely love this post, well said.

I feel sorry for the many that'll snort, sneer and turn their nose up at it. They'll be the first to demand help from the Gubbermint when it all goes tits up.

Satan forbid a fly should enter their home, right?

WhileMyGuitarGentlyWeeps · 23/07/2022 00:14

Great post @WiddlinDiddlin Smile

XenoBitch · 23/07/2022 00:21

The only things that I would take any sort of joy in dying is parasitic things like worms and fleas.
You can't really try and live a life alongside them.

Finding joy in creatures perishing on a glue trap is troublesome. There are bigger versions of fly paper which are meant to catch mice, but they also end up catching birds. Fly or mouse.... being glued to something is a horrid way to go

speakout · 23/07/2022 06:55

I don't enjoy the the deaths of even parasites. Yes we have to kill these creatures for our health but I don't celebrate their passing. There is perhaps a relief that they have gone, but no enjoyment. I think it is sick to enjoy watching other creatures suffer.
I spent a year in rural Thailand in an area that was home to cobras and other venomous snakes and crestures. Locals and business owners would check
every morning because quite often a snake would have decided to sleep coiled around chair legs or under tables.

I saw a good number being caught, and they would be dispatched quickly, a shovel or spade decapitating the snake in a single blow. I remember always feeling sad watching the locals killing the snakes when they were just doing what snakes do. But the alternative was humans, horses ( they were particular targets of the snakes) and dogs were bitten. So it had to be done.
And I didn't want to eat my breakast with a cobra inches away,
So it was a balance of needs and survival.
Same with flies- they are just doing what they are supposed to.
Watching the death of another creature must give enjoyment to some sickos those that hunt foxes or kill pheasants perhaps.

thispooshallpass · 23/07/2022 07:33

Enjoying any animals suffering is just plain sick and I’d like to think these posters are trolls but then I remember how many people are trophy hunters or animal abusers in RL

Animals as in vertebrates, typically mammals. That is true. What evidence is there that killing a fly correlates to psychopathy? That's a pretty stupid statement to make if your actually suggesting that. I doubt anyone has bothered to even conduct a study.

Also, disagreeing with you doesn't equal trolling. I didn't know feeling satisfied about killing pests was such a hot topic. As in, an insect in your house. What have you done for insects lately - do you actually encourage insect habitats or are you just blabbing?

In general, the more ridiculous statements you make, the more people argue with you. If you can't be reasonable and sensible, nobody is going to take you seriously.

thispooshallpass · 23/07/2022 07:43

Children enjoying killing insects should definitely not be encouraged and can actually be disturbing to see, but a regular woman killing flies in her house now means she probably supports fox hunting and kicking puppies. Yes, of course, that's a totally rational viewpoint.

Albgo · 23/07/2022 09:06

WiddlinDiddlin · 22/07/2022 23:31

The casual ignorance in this thread is astonishing.

I am very wary of any suggesting that insects/crustaceans/molluscs can't feel pain.

First of all.. define pain. Is my pain like your pain, how much pain am I in right now if I tell you its a 7 out of 10 and I am taking Fentanyl via a patch daily - have you ANY idea? Most of you won't, some of you might, a tiny bit. Would you know to look at me sitting here typing this - no, not unless you know me very very well.

And we're the same species (I assume).

Pain serves a function - don't touch that/don't let that touch you/move away/stop doing that.

To cause avoidance, pain must be in some way aversive (how do I extrapolate that the quadrants of learning theory apply to insects - see Ramirez, training butterflies via positive reinforcement. if one quadrant applies, potentially, they all apply). - otherwise why WOULD you avoid it?

It is a very simple system - that hurts, don't do it. That limb is falling off, don't jump on it.

Why would there be another system to tell something 'don't do that', it would be MORE complex, require more memory, more logic, more innate behaviour than a simple 'ow, fuck, i wont do that'.

Now do they feel pain the same way we do, no, highly unlikely. Is it AS painful as it would be for us if the same thing happened to us... who the fuck knows... does it make them miserable, depressed, angry and ranting on internet forums like it does us.. again doubtful.. but who knows.

But again - we don't KNOW if we each experience pain the same way as one another, are my toothaches as vile as yours, are my burning joints as agonising as his, who knows.

Not that long ago, we thought lobsters and fish didn't experience pain, within MY lifetime, there have been vets trained and in practice who genuinely believe dogs didn't suffer certain types of pain or that it was acceptable to ignore animal pain.

We commonly view insects as being less advanced, less developed than we are, and thats really showing your ignorance - these are highly specialised creatures, they are INCREDIBLE.. at what they do.

A flys compound eye can see a wider field of vision than yours, processes light better, processes multiple images far FAR faster and sees colours you do not.

Some of the jumping spiders see so well they can recognise faces, not just 'thats a human face' but 'thats a human face I know' vs 'that is a human face I do not know'.

The mantis shrimp can see colours nothing else can, they have the most complex eye on the planet, they have 12 to 16 types of photoreceptor (you btw, have just 3) and can TUNE their eyes colour sensitivity long wave-length to adapt to the environment.

These creatures are incredible and HIGHLY specialised - we need lots of them, they pollinate, consume each other, recycle dead things and they are the bottom of the food chain, feeding many many species.

Without bees and wasps and flies and spiders and shrimp and krill and so on... we'd be overloaded with dead bodies of all manner of species, have no birds, no whales, no bats, amphibians, many reptiles, and fish would be lost...

Without any insects, the planet is fucked.

Without us - it will succeed - we're a lumbering generalising non-specialist, easily adaptable species - we take a lot and we give fuck all back.

Without us.. the world would revert to a lush green planet very rapidly indeed, we're about the only species you could wipe out without any negative effect at all.

So yes when I hear people killing insects for fun and think thats just great, teach that to their kids too... it does make me feel sick. You don't know how stupid you are.

@WiddlinDiddlin wonderfully put.

popapoppadum · 23/07/2022 09:33

@WiddlinDiddlin I'm sad to say that before I read your post I was in the 'it doesn't really matter if we kill them' camp but you've made me rethink. So, thank you!

JuniorTiger · 23/07/2022 09:36

Totally with you, I’ve got one of those containers that attract flies and then they can’t get out again, it’s almost full of dead flies and I feel happy and satisfied about it

Zwellers · 23/07/2022 09:46

Some of you are unbelievable to make out you would never kill a fly/wasp/mosquito etc. Presumably you all live in maggot ridden houses and are happy to have a wasp nest in child's bedroom and ants on your kitchen counters because it's nature.
Or perhaps you just enjoy self righteous pile ons.

Zwellers · 23/07/2022 09:48

Phoenix76 are you seriously equating killing a fly to slavery?.

SuperlativeOxymoron · 23/07/2022 09:49

Zwellers · 23/07/2022 09:46

Some of you are unbelievable to make out you would never kill a fly/wasp/mosquito etc. Presumably you all live in maggot ridden houses and are happy to have a wasp nest in child's bedroom and ants on your kitchen counters because it's nature.
Or perhaps you just enjoy self righteous pile ons.

Nope, I said I try to remove them, if I am unsuccessful, yes someone I do end up killing.

However, the biggest point is I (and many others) take no pleasure in their death, which is what the OP has asked if they are unreasonable about.

Bonjovispjs · 23/07/2022 09:54

Just because I'd never kill a fly/wasp/mosquito, doesn't mean my home is infested with maggots🙄

Kanaloa · 23/07/2022 10:27

Bonjovispjs · 23/07/2022 09:54

Just because I'd never kill a fly/wasp/mosquito, doesn't mean my home is infested with maggots🙄

I was just about to say this! Although plenty of us have said yes we’d remove dangerous pests if necessary, but not take joy in sending our kids out to smash ants up in the garden.

But despite not joyfully killing pests my house isn’t overrun with maggots and wasps. It’s simply not an issue.

RichardOsmansXraySpecs · 23/07/2022 11:35

Maggot infested houses indeed. I think it’s the people who have fly paper who must live in filthy houses, I mean why so many flies that you actually need fly paper?
My late Nan always said a healthy house is a house with spiders and that’s what I have. The spiders get to feed and I don’t have any little flies around. The larger ones I shoo out the window, it’s really not difficult to live in harmony with your surroundings.

speakout · 23/07/2022 11:43

RichardOsmansXraySpecs · 23/07/2022 11:35

Maggot infested houses indeed. I think it’s the people who have fly paper who must live in filthy houses, I mean why so many flies that you actually need fly paper?
My late Nan always said a healthy house is a house with spiders and that’s what I have. The spiders get to feed and I don’t have any little flies around. The larger ones I shoo out the window, it’s really not difficult to live in harmony with your surroundings.

I don't think flies always indicate a dirty house.
My last home was in a very rural area, we had stables, sheep, cows, and a kennel all within the immediate vicinity.
Flies were always a problem in the summer I would often have to use several fly papers in different rooms. I moved to another house- also rural but not so much animal husbandry around. I have been here for 6 years and flies are not a problem at all. I dont think my hygeine stantards have increased in that time.

WiddlinDiddlin · 23/07/2022 16:19

Thanks to those who enjoyed/were caused to think after reading my post 😀

I am not against killing certain things if it's necessary - I eat meat sometimes, not very often and I don't eat rare things, I try to eat as little as possible - but that doesn't mean I'd enjoy an afternoon out at an abbatoir!

If a mosquito lands on me, yes I'll slap my arm and if I can pick up the tiny corpse it gets dropped in my fish tank, but I am not enjoying watching flies writhe and die!

I try not to use fly strips (they have an attractant in them as well as the glue so can draw more flies in), mostly because I love moths and spiders and really do not want them caught, and I don't use fly sprays.

I am mindful of the chemicals I use - I do flea spray the house once a year, but this once dry, stays in my house, meaning I generally do not need to apply any chemical to the dogs (and those chemicals wash off and get into our water courses so are worth avoiding).

If I find slugs in my vivariums, they get evicted (out the window on to the front lawn), I don't mind them being slugs elsewhere but not in a tank with hundreds of quids worth of plants ta!

I feed the birds, and the rats around our row of houses yards eat what is dropped - I do not poison the rats unless they get in the loft space which is dangerous - poisoning the ones in the yard puts other animals at risk. I do however let my dogs kill them if they can (not overly effective from a numbers pov, but they are efficient and fast!)

We can be moderate about this, find some balance - if its biting me or my pets, or damaging my stuff, I'll deal with that. Otherwise, live and let live!