To be worried about Rainbows

[justanotherguider]

As a guide leader and as a mother I find this worrying:

girlguiding.foleon.com/guiding-magazine/guiding-summer-2022/rainbow-girl

I don’t equate those things to the transgender experience. But if you do, fine - once again, we don’t have to agree with each other. And my kids are a-ok, thanks for the concern.

Oh dear. It would be interesting to know when it changed.

The Rainbow story is nonsense - it’s so obviously untrue, at least in parts. Children of 18 months don’t ‘identify with’ characters in books, what does that even mean? Most characters in toddlers books are animals or toys anyway. What does a toddler identifying with someone in a book look like? Does it just mean they like them? Or role play the part? Or want the merchandise? I have met lots of very small firemen and super heroes, should their parents let them play with fire and jump off roofs?

@Didimum why? Why is a child able to make one of those decisions and not the others?

according to @didimum yes, toddlers are capable of making all kinds of decisions about their lives

There's so much hatred and bigotry in some of these comments.

Trans people do exist. I have a friend who's been a trans man for decades. He's not weird, confused, messed up. He's an intelligent, caring, social, very normal guy.

Stop with the stereotypes and hate

No ones saying transpeople don’t exist. We are discussing the child abuse involved in convincing a toddler they are not the sex they are.

One of the reasons is that the other decisions don’t include the years-long inclusion of dedicated medical professionals and therapists.

Now, I’ve made it abundantly clear that you are not required to agree with me. You can think what you like.

I’m off now, it’s getting late. Byeeee.

So you are suggesting parents subjecting their healthy child to years of medical intervention and therapy for their own benefit/nefarious reasons is not child abuse. Ok. Would you say that if the parents took their child for any other unnecessary medical treatment fit their own satisfaction? What if the child expressed a wish to have a leg cut off as he wanted to be a pirate? Would that be ok for you?

There was a point when throwing around words like hate and bigotry got people expressing concerns to back off. That time is over. That hand had been overplayed. Concern about child safeguarding is not hateful or bigoted.

I’m not sure. Let me check the WHO guidelines on pirate amputations and I’ll get back to you.

Anyway, it’s been real entertaining, guys. Have a good night.

Yes, it’s been recognised as just another way of trying to shut women up. See the trans tactics thread. Wonder what we’ll get next? Please for be kind or accusations of being mean

Didimum · Today 22:26

“Conflictedunicorn · Today 22:19
@Didimum why? Why is a child able to make one of those decisions and not the others?”

One of the reasons is that the other decisions don’t include the years-long inclusion of dedicated medical professionals and therapists.

Now, I’ve made it abundantly clear that you are not required to agree with me. You can think what you like.

I’m off now, it’s getting late. Byeeee.

I think ‘medical professionals’ diagnose a child as having an inner gender identity separate from their sex are necessarily particularly worthy of belief and respect.

Look at what has been happening in America where are lot of this current trend is coming from:

An excerpt from
thefederalist.com/2018/02/20/rich-white-men-institutionalizing-transgender-ideology/

Transgenderism: A New Medical and Lifestyle Market

It seems obvious now to look at the money behind transgenderism. Many new markets have opened because of it. The first gender clinic for children opened in Boston in 2007. In the past ten years, more than 30 clinics for children with purported gender dysphoria have arisen in the United States alone, the largest serving 725 patients.

Sorry, I meant “I don’t think..”

Trans children money making business.

www.tranzwear.net/store.php/TranZwear/pd9488550/best_boy_bump_for_the_little_guys

Who is exposing their penis?! FFS. The girls in my daughter's Brownie Unit don't go around exposing their bits! Why would this child?

WPATH, World Professional Association for Transgender Health, is not an organisation I would trust at all. This interview with journalist Genevieve Gluck, who has looked into their murky past and present practices, is shocking:

Use your brain. We take children to activities where they may need to get changed in communal areas - swimming, overnights where they are sharing dorms/tents.

Gender critical beliefs are confirmed as protected beliefs under the Equality Act, following Maya Forsater's High Court ruling. No leader expressing GC concerns should be under any threat of expulsion. As I understand it, what happened with Katie Alcock is she settled her case with GGUK, and is probably bound by confidentiality; which she would have had little choice over without facing costs consequences, but frustrating for those of us wanting to see a clear ruling that GGUK cannot impose their batshit quasi religious beliefs on the rest of us. I

n any event, many of us leaders are outspokenly GC and I have emailed GGUK a number of times, both as a parent and a leader on the matter. They are simply not interested. I think they just think they can just railroad this shit through and hope most of us will just get on with it. I'm happy to stay in for the time being and undermine their stupid agenda from within. There is no way I will accept any boy into my unit however they identify. Nobody under18 enjoys the legal status of the opposite sex because they cannot hold a GRC. Therefore, to accept some boys (those who think they are girls), but not all other boys is a breach of the Equality Act. GGUK cannot compel me to break the law. I'll sue them if they try to make me.

“Better a trans daughter than a gay son”.

This is entering the realm of the myriad issues with private, profit-making healthcare in the US - the issues stem from everything from plagiocephaly helmets to cosmetic surgery to, as you say, medical interventions for transgender people. Indeed, it’s a complex industry in an already complex and problematic nation.

It does, however, have little to do with a charitable organisation, such as girl guiding/rainbows, choosing to allow admission to a child who identifies as a transgender girl. Some will applaud that, others will not. Fortunately you have the freedom of choice to not have your daughter (if you have one) join the Rainbows.

I understand, to some, that it may be seen as a sort of ‘gateway drug’, and therefore it makes its way onto these threads. You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion, as others are entitled to theirs.

Neither women nor little girls are care givers to any random male (however nice and sweet) who wants them to shove over and make room in a single sex space.
Rainbows were difficult to get into in my area - spaces limited. Beavers and cubs need to be more accommodating. I have a school mum acquaintance whose daughter went to beavers, cubs and scouts. Let them move over. Girls need to learn that they can have protected spaces

Didimum · Today 07:46
It does, however, have little to do with a charitable organisation, such as girl guiding/rainbows, choosing to allow admission to a child who identifies as a transgender girl. Some will applaud that, others will not. Fortunately you have the freedom of choice to not have your daughter (if you have one) join the Rainbows.

No, you are right, that was not to do with whether or not someone chooses to send their child to Rainbows per se.

It was in response to you seeming to, in my opinion, place too much faith in dedicated medical professionals and therapists when you said the following:

One of the reasons is that the other decisions don’t include the years-long inclusion of dedicated medical professionals and therapists.

Also re the subject of medical professionals in the U.K.

The Interim Cass Report,
Sex-Matters
says:
sex-matters.org/posts/updates/the-cass-reviews-interim-report-is-out/

From the point of entry to GIDS there appears to be predominantly an affirmative, non-exploratory approach, often driven by child and parent expectations and the extent of social transition that has developed due to the delay in service provision.

The evidence base for an affirmation-only model is severely lacking.

Re:
Gender clinics U.K.
Nolan Investigates - Stonewall - listen to
Episode 5
A Gender Clinic Insider Speaks Out

Thank you for linking to that review. It was an interesting read. It's my choice to put my faith in physical and mental health professionals – it's completely OK for you to feel as if that is having too much faith. I'm not here to change your opinion, I'm here to express mine. Evidence-based practice is very important to me, so I'll always be interested in the review of that for all industries.

I should have also mentioned that my comment on the guidance of medical professionals and therapists was in the context of equating gender-identity guidance to child starvation, the consumption of animal feed, child marriage and limb amputation. In the interests of staying on topic, and not entering into straw man arguments, I feel it's important to make that distinction in order express my opinion.