To be worried about Rainbows

[justanotherguider]

As a guide leader and as a mother I find this worrying:

girlguiding.foleon.com/guiding-magazine/guiding-summer-2022/rainbow-girl

I acccept that I have a sample of three, personally known to me… So then I’m wondering what else they get wrong. Because I know that some of it IS wrong. The ‘anti-trans’ stuff people come out with has such a hysterical, bigoted tone

More than 20. I don't have special insight. I have seen the dynamics play out in a number of families. Yes, some of them have detransitioned and that was made easier by it being social detransitioning rather than after more substantial medical or surgical interventions. Others are intending to pursue these interventions with the support of their families.

You classify the concerns of others as anti-, hysteria, bigotry etc even when it's grounded in a review of clinical evidence. Setting that aside, would you ever challenge your friends/whomever with what they got wrong or how they were mislead by others (eg, the suicide risk)?

I think you are being ridiculously hateful, prejudice and not a little bit overly dramatic.

The issue is that they’re a charity and they can’t afford to hire anyone who isn’t just out of uni. Therefore they gets lots of idealistic early 20s you don’t adults, whose brains haven’t matured properly yet!

its ridiculous. A 7 year old doesn’t have the capacity to make decisions like that, it’s his parents pushing theirs onto him.

i’s be interested in knowing nationally how many kids in Girlguiding actually are boys. I suspect it’s very few.

as a leader, I just ignore it. I don’t believe it’s possible or preferable for anyone to change sex. would not admit a boy, I’d just close the unit (it wouldn’t run without me).

Awesome GG pushing sexist stereotypes that have constrained girls and womens lives for millennia. Can’t have those uppity women thinking they could read ‘boys’ books and ‘boys’ toys when everyone knows it is what books you read, what toys you play with and what you wear that makes you a girl

FFS GG you are supporting ideology that is damaging the life opportunities open to women

I am doing my small bit in the pushback against Gender Ideology, but I have kept my girls in Girlguiding because I trust my local leaders and I really don’t want to lose such a valuable organisation.

it’s reassuring to hear from leaders that they are concerned about this and would like to push back. Unfortunately, I don’t know how they can push back. I’ve corresponded with Girlguiding on this subject and they are completely captured and unreasonable.

if they do start pushing this nonsense during sessions then I will have no choice but to remove my youngest, as she is very gender non-conforming in appearance, and I am really worried that someone will implant these stupid, regressive ideas into her head.

And when that little Rainbow, starts going through puberty and is still sleeping in the same space as other little girls, that's ok too?

As when one of the leaders is a trans woman, they can share sleeping and shower facilities with your daughters and you're not told, that's ok too?

Not only is it not ok, Leaders who organise residential events are not allowed to call out on a risk assessment that there is a penis in the camp. Of any age. So that a penis-haver might, in extremist, help your daughter to wash or toilet herself.
Nor are they allowed to inform parents that there is a penis at camp and that that person might help the girls with intimate activities

I’m really surprised at this. I recently added both my DDs to the waiting list for Rainbows/Brownies, I’m thinking twice about it now.

How can this be seen as progressive? It’s just reinforcing stereotypes. My DD had a playdate recently with a boy, they both dressed up as Elsa, it’s no big deal.

Leaders don't share sleeping areas with children and no Leader should provide personal care like showering without another adult present.
There are rules around ratios and if you have a sole Leader, how that has to approached to safeguard children and adults.
I'm not happy with the direction GG have taken on this but these statements around sleeping and showering aren't quite true.
They have recently updated their information on their website about their stance on trans inclusion and policies around sleeping are also on their website. They are more transparent than they were prior to the court case with Dr Alcock.

It's the old Vegan Cat scenario with poor Rainbow - such homophobic parents can't imagine having an effeminate little boy so declare him a girl.

So many professionals have left the Tavistock because they were seeing parents "transing the gay away" and not able to speak out about it. They also confirmed trans childern were no more at risk of suicide than any other teen with mental or emotional difficulties. The "dead son/living daughter" is emotional blackmail from charlatans like Mermaids.

Guiding was about showing girls the endless possibilities open to them, broadening their horizons. It sure as hell wasn't about enforcing gender stereotypes. I'm glad our local leaders are GC.

Oh they do have the money… it’s spent on the salaries of those high up who contribute very little. And yes some of the staff come up with these dumb ideas, but most of the others staff are highly knowledgeable, in shit roles, treated awfully and paid peanuts.

Good to see this in AIBU and not pushed off to the naughty corner. It's so unfair on girls who are absolutely proven to thrive in single sex groups, let alone safeguarding, but it's the little boy who breaks my heart the most. The parents did this to a preschooler. Even when you try to understand the fears of parents of gnc teens, the learned suicide threats etc, to do this with such a young child is outright abuse. There's no other way round it. How is this kid ever going to lead any semblance of ordinary life? Even if he wants to desist it will likely be impossible.

Come on. The kid wouldn't have been old enough to consent to a tattoo. Their brain has not fully developed enough to be aware of the consequences of their decision and their parents enabled this.

Rainbow is a safeguarding concern in my opinion not a child to showcase in this way !

And you see no difference, none at all, between wanting a picture on your body and and hating your body so much that that you want to cut bits of it off? I’ve never known a child so distressed, I truly haven’t. I think if you’d seen it, you wouldn’t be comparing it to such trivialities.

but clear the kid would need to be fully responsible for the process

This comment by Eek makes me so fucking cross. How can a child be fully responsible for a process that will affect them for life?

Simple- join scouts which is truly inclusive not bigotted guides where parents want their precious little darlings to be protected from penises. Have some empathy and get a grip. Having a trans member is not a safegaurding issue growing up in an over protective family however is.

Instead we asked, “Can you tell us a bit more about how you feel? There are some boys who like all the things that society thinks are for girls but know themselves to be boys, and there are some who feel like they are girls inside."

‘My child explained it’s the second one’

‘treat us respectfully and just the same as any of the other girls, because on the inside we’re all the same really!’

this is a true story ? Try again guides. This didn’t happen

a family licking an infant school age child into trans shape because the child is not conforming to gender norms is not liberal, it’s a safeguarding issue

Gender stereotypes have been challenged since I was at school 40 years ago. Androgynous, female and male fashion, interests, hobbies etc. I love a tailored trouser and my husband looks great in pink! There is also absolutely nothing wrong with girls playing with trucks and boys dressing up as a princess, it’s part of imaginative play and development. What is deeply concerning about this article is “Rainbows” parents are indulging what could be a phase and pushing this extremely young child down a path and coercing them in a direction that may well lead to mental health issues and irreversible physical problems. These are not responsible parents, they are virtue signalling idiots.
I honestly despair for the GG association! The safeguarding of girls seems to come second to woke ideologically. I would not be accepting a TW as a GG leader or XY children/teenagers with XX members. It just seems unnecessary and provocative. Join the Scouts instead!!

I’m another leader, the situation hasn’t arisen yet for us. The unit will close if it does because I will put safeguarding and honesty ahead of everything else. But I can’t take the risk of saying anything out loud.

Sounds like Rainbow's parents are doing an awesome job. Good for them. And great for the Rainbows group for their inclusivity.

I'm a rainbow leader and we've never had a transgender child in our group but we do have a male leader (husband of one of our female leaders). No parents have ever had an issue with him being there, none of the kids care. I totally get protecting women only spaces but this was always just a matter of time. Scouts have let girls join for years.
In rainbows you don't do nights away, in all likelihood this trans child will be in the same class at school as the other kids at rainbows and 5 year olds just want to play with their friends.

But why should a girls group ‘include’ boys of any sort? Single sex groups are allowed, and much appreciated by many women and men. Inclusive in the context of guides should mean including girls of all backgrounds, abilities, races, disabilities, neuro differences.
It’s sad if a little boy wishes he could join and can’t - but his disappointment isn’t more important than the girls having their spaces. Sometimes the truth hurts - Rainbow’s parents job is to be honest help rainbow accept themself and allow rainbow to wear play with what ever they want. To say ‘I’m afraid you can’t join rainbows, because… I know it’s sad but you could do xxx instead.’ Not to take away a load of girls access to their single sex group, and expect the girls and their parents to allow it without any discussion.

Men can’t be guide leaders though - they can only be volunteers (unless they say they are a woman of course!).

Well the man we have volunteering with us does the exact same role as an official leader and has done for 5+ years now, the title makes no difference to what we do in the group