To be worried about Rainbows

[justanotherguider]

As a guide leader and as a mother I find this worrying:

girlguiding.foleon.com/guiding-magazine/guiding-summer-2022/rainbow-girl

They’re fully captured. Fully. Despite having to pay out a hell of a lot to Katie Alcock. And deliver an apology.

I quit as a leader over this, and was relieved when dd1 chose to leave brownies. DD2 still likes rainbows, but will be leaving before she gets anywhere near guides.

they haven’t changed any policies or reconsidered the safeguarding issues at all. They don’t care.

When little Rainbow is 18 and wants gender reassignment surgery after being on puberty blockers for years, there will be so little tissue to work with that colon material will have to be used. Which will cause a permanent smell. There will be no sexual pleasure, no sexual appetite and no normal sex life. Very little chance of gathering children as well. I wonder if Rainbow will thank h-- parents for deciding that dresses = girl ? See Jazz Jennings, who this has already happened to. And plenty of others who are now speaking up.

These poor children are sold a lie by adults who should (and do!) know better. It is actually heartbreaking.

*fathering not gathering 😂

Wow.

And they really don't care about people leaving over it either. I wrote to them in the Katie Alcock times and was brushed off. They're so captured that they're pleased anyone with wrongthink leaves....

We've moved to scouts. I know they might not be a lot better but they are at least mixed. I prefer the curriculum too rather than all the woke badges - but such a shame. I was a guide and bery behind guiding as a movement. I love all the quirky, clever women I have met who have been amazing for the girls - but I think itis a sinking ship now. As are breastfeeding support groups, etc. Quietly erased 😔

And all the female sterotypes in the article- all about the dress !

I rember guides as somewhere I didnt have to be femme- xould do the clombing and abseiling qnd camping without make up on and not conform to stereotypes.

This is full on building rainbows/guides into a man's stereotype of what a girls group should look like....

Id love guides to be "proudly transinclusive" and be a space for transmen, butch lesbians, and all the different forms the female sex takes. Its such a shame they've gone for gender over sex. There is no way they're an organisation with girls at heart any more.

This article made me so sad as well.

I am a leader of 20+ years standing.

I can tell you that whilst they can’t say it to your face the many leaders I go to the pub with regularly are fully GC and will leave before they endanger your children.

it’s not good enough though. My Guides don’t want to camp at the moment and I’m too scared to ask the parents why~ I fear this issue will feature in their responses,

im so torn, a movement I have been involved with since I myself was 5 and have had nothing but acceptance, fun and opportunity with. I genuinely still believe what I do in a volunteering capacity benefits girls and young women. I believe it’s important community service.

and yet… am I going to have to leave because of this?

Its a no win situation isnt it. When the experienced members with critical thinking facilities leave it will be left as a fully trans captured org ....

YANBU

it feels like we’re going backwards with gender stereotypes. That if a child likes things traditionally associated with the opposite gender then they must be trans.

and sad that girl guiding who used to fight for womens rights have drunk the koolaid and prioritising trans rights over the rights of women and girls.

A fully captured organisation with far fewer leaders.

if my district GC leaders all left tomorrow units would close. I don’t believe there are enough non GC willing volunteers just waiting in the wings. So the girls miss out completely.

Children don't think they can change sex unless the adults around them lie to them. There is nothing kind about lying to children.

Youre right. A smaller organisation for those that like wearing dresses and doing craft and cake decorating 😔.

It had such a unique place in society it really could have been at the forefront of things for women/girls but it wont be.

But it was totally acceptable for you to go around being part horse. Presumably you no longer do. However, the only acceptable way for a boy to wear a dress is to be a girl. So that’s what’s happening. I wonder if the treatment of small children playing with gender stereotypes were treated the same as them trying on other play identities, and not either instantly needing to be formally and permanently labelled as transgender or repressed as unacceptable. Presumably, your parents indulged you being part horse as far as practicable, and didn’t assume it would follow you into adulthood?

Maybe if we just all chilled out a bit over it, it wouldn’t be such an issue. You can’t compare it to being, say, part-horse, if you are treating it very differently. By making such a big deal out of it, we are forcing it to be more of an issue. (I’m sorry, this is very poorly put. I can’t seem to drill down what I mean properly.)

Its quite telling that the parents were worried about playing withb"girls toys" at 18months.

Fgs let toys be toys and all that.

Why does guides have to be for dresses and femme stuff. Will they chuck the butch/tom boy /whatever girls out!?

That's scary. Because apart from anything else, what happens in a few years, when he starts going through puberty? Is he going to be allowed to drop all the girl stuff, or is he going to be pushed into puberty blockers and hormones? It's child abuse.

@AppleKatie I promise I'm not being goady, but why don't you leave? Why don't you ALL leave?

Then they would HAVE to sit up and take notice.

By staying aren't you being an (un)willing accomplice?

Why don't you ask the parents why they won't send their daughters to camp? Send it up to HQ, if no one is complaining why would they change?

I'm genuinely interested in your views.

I was offered an interview for a very well paying job there, but I just couldn't accept the interview and told them why.

An 18 month old identifying with female toys and characters. What the actual fuck have I just read. Have these people just made this up? I had an 18 month old who identified as a Stagecoach bus most of the time. The fact that this is taken as a sign that this BABY was the wrong gender is absolute madness.

I’m not sure why you feel ‘children’ are ‘pushed’ into this. Can you elaborate? Who pushes them? ‘Why’? I’m not goading and it’s a common attitude, but it puzzles me. I’m not trans and don’t have trans children. I’ve no skin in this game and no agenda. I just want to understand better where people are coming from.

If he get anywhere near mermaids or the tavistock, odds are that it will be puberty blockers (off-label drugs not developed or tested for this purpose, let's remember) and then cross sex hormones. Then a lifetime of drug dependence and surgical intervention. All because a little boy wanted to play with dolls and wear pretty clothes.

I agree with BlueWhat. Pull them out.
I could not send her there and be comfortable anymore. Such a shame as the leaders were fantastic.
There are other groups to join.

@Eeksteek - 80% of children who think they may be the wrong sex desist ie they grow out of it. Unless their parents take them to a gender identity clinic which is a one way street to lifelong medication for most.

Because we currently have full units of girls getting amazing opportunities and life skills, making lots of friends, recovering from lockdown life. And until the scenario arrives on the doorstep (it undoubtedly will) I will give as much energy as i have spare to them because eventually I won't be able to and there won't be this kind of space. My unit is the same, other leaders will follow me out the door.

"Children don't think they can change sex unless the adults around them lie to them. There is nothing kind about lying to children."

What complete nonsense. Having been through this with my child at a young age I can assure you they are not lied to. They are told they can be who they are and we will accept them. In our case I showed my son lots of "feminine" males who wear dresses and told them that boys can like "girly" things too etc etc. It was not a quick change it happened over years of open discussion. The decision is led by the child not the parents.

@BlueWhat i ask myself that most days.

I don’t pretend I’m powerful enough to force other leaders into also leaving with me though.

And if I go, my unit will close. And then 100 years of continuous guiding in that unit will cease. And all those opportunities all that history will stop.

For what at the moment is theoretical- there aren’t any trans members in my group.

I will ask the parents though (I am working up the courage, it’s already on the list for sept) and I will feedback when it’s done. I also contributed fully and anonymously to a recent equality and diversity survey by Gg.

Is Gg a democratically structured organisation? Is there any way for leaders to get rid of the sex-denial fanatics?

I'm glad I'm not the only one horrified by this.
I've been in guiding for over 50 years, a leader in all sections except Rainbows. I know no guiders in our area who are in favour of this policy.
Most cannot speak out in real life because we would be forced to leave and have repercussions in careers etc.

It's not because we hate trans people- like most I hope they can be free to live their best lives - but not at the expense of the right of women and girls to do the same.

That poor child- of course Rainbow should have been allowed to play with dolls and wear the pretty sparkly dress- my grandson spent months happily prancing about in an Elsa dress with flashing sparkly shoes. It didn't mean he was really a girl. Now he likes other stuff (dinosaurs) but he's still not keen on cars and trains. Still a boy.