To be worried about Rainbows

[justanotherguider]

As a guide leader and as a mother I find this worrying:

girlguiding.foleon.com/guiding-magazine/guiding-summer-2022/rainbow-girl

Then a 'single-gender' (as opposed to single-sex) group is perhaps what they are moving towards, if not then mixed like Scouts/Beavers. A little boy who identifies as a boy is not the same as a transgender girl who identifies as a girl. Perhaps not an apt comparison to draw. The girls can be taught that Rainbow identifies as a girl and therefore Rainbows accepts her as it is a girls group.

Guides is describing itself as a single gender organisation.
Transboys (born girls) are grudgingly accepted.
Boys (born boys) are not.
Transgirls (born boys) are accepted
Girls - accepted

Guide leaders absolutely can and do share sleeping spaces with girls. The usual scenario would be in a church hall where there's no other room available. GG say it's rare, but for some units that's the only residential they do.
Men are Unit Helpers, and don't do that.

The messaging from HQ is very clear: TWAW and we are a trans-inclusive organisation.

I don't think this would change if all the GC members left, because it is about what is believed to be right.

Well, you have to organise. Set up a group for Guide leaders who disagree with forcing stereotypes on children. Write petitions.

I'll be with you every step of the way, as will many, many others, but until that starts, my kids will be going nowhere near this organisation.

The alternative is to set up a similar organisation that is very definitely single sex.

Girl guiding have completely lost their way. Why are they reinforcing harmful stereotypes on children?

I stand corrected on sleeping arrangements - but a church hall is different to say, sharing a tent. Depending on the size of the unit, a hall could be accommodating 15/20/30 people. It doesn't have the same intimacy as a small space like a tent.

What a bizarre thing to say. In what way is it bigoted to not want your daughter exposed to a penis against her will?

It’s not a ‘little girl’. It’s a boy.

Just to clarify also, Rainbows can and do, take part in residentials, only 1 night at a time, but they absolutely can do this, and many groups do so.

Our local Rainbow and Brownie leaders quit over this issue.

a couple of them have set up a girls club one evening a week. It’s not the same, and I imagine for them not being part of an organisation they were part of for a very long time must be sad, but they’ve done a brilliant job for girls locally.

Yanbu - and poor Rainbow - how can they possibly make an informed choice about what being trans means at their age?

I find this as concerning as anything. NO leader should be sharing private, personal information with anyone even family. It breaks so many rules.

My daughter has preferred male characters and traditionally "boy" things from around the age of 2.

From 4, she started showing a distaste towards anything stereotypically feminine - pink clothes, dresses, "girl toys", princesses etc. She has loved blue, toys from the "boy section", clothes from the "boy section", monsters and superheros.

Her best friends at school are boys. She refuses to wear the "girl" uniform, so won't wear skirts and dresses.

She has expressed wanting to be a boy because "boys are cool" at times, and recently has said she wants her hair cut short "like the boys".

This is stereotype/gender role based, but imagine how easy it would have been to just tell her that actually, she is a boy, and give her a new name.

Some people suggested we just say no, encourage her to identify with the male characters, but how can you explain that to a young child? To what end? No to playing with toys she loved or characters she loved to pretend to be? It felt cruel to say no, to the say the least

I would bet zero people have said this, if anyone said anything (unlikely) I'd wager it was something reasonable and sensible like- children can play with whatever they please, it doesn't affect their biological sex. Its not like people sprout penises because they play with an action man instead of a barbie.

Simple- join scouts which is truly inclusive not bigotted guides where parents want their precious little darlings to be protected from penises. Have some empathy and get a grip. Having a trans member is not a safegaurding issue growing up in an over protective family however is.

Scouts is set up for both boys and girls to join and have appropriate provision and safeguarding in place. Rainbows are supposed to be a safe space for girls and therefore its not the same. I have empathy for the young child who should have been able to enjoy the toys, stories and clothes they wanted without being told they are a different gender when that's a social construct and they will always be a boy. These harmful gender stereotypes are harmful for everyone.

A little boy who identifies as a boy is not the same as a transgender girl who identifies as a girl.

Really Didimum?

What do you think is the difference?

Didimum, you might think that ‘A little boy who identifies as a boy is not the same as a transgender girl who identifies as a girl’ but in every scientific, biological and truthful way they are. You cannot force people to accept something is a fact when it simply isn’t true - boys are boys, girls are girls. Humans can’t change sex and you can’t be ‘born in the wrong body’ FACTS. If you believe otherwise that is akin to religious belief, like believing in ghosts or gods or that the world is flat. Absolutely your right to believe those sort of things but what you can’t do is insist that everyone else pretends that they believe them too. Any differences between a boy that is a happy to be a boy and one that thinks they are a girl are just personality and not following gender stereotypes, or sometimes a trauma response, possible with the added complication of adults going reinforcing (or even suggesting in the case of Rainbow) their ideas.

I don't care. She's my mum, she's my DD's grandmother. She will tell me if there is a safeguarding risk to my daughter; that trumps everything else.

And should the Guides have a residential trip where one of the GirlGuides is male and a pregnancy results, I'm sure everyone will be completely fine with the fact that nobody mentioned one of the Guides sleeping in the dorm was male.

I took my daughters out (they were fine, finding the particular group a bit dull and I didn’t encourage them to find positives). My eldest is autistic and I knew she would end up in trouble or confused/ upset with it all at some point.
whilst she’d be totally happy to use a pronoun of choice out of respect to the individual, out of kindness, she would not cope with the gaslighting. Being told factually a boy was a girl, she’d comment, get stubborn and confused. I’ve had to talk it through A LOT to navigate it with my 2 who are autistic.

Not to worry! Guiding have planned for this eventuality by allowing leaders to hand out condoms and recommending girls wear sturdy pyjamas.

Yes, really. Really really.

@Icedbannoffee

Scouts is set up for both boys and girls to join and have appropriate provision and safeguarding in place.

Scouts absolutely do not have appropriate safeguarding in place. It just seems to have bypassed everyone's notice on account of them being a mixed sex organisation.

www.scouts.org.uk/volunteers/inclusion-and-diversity/including-everyone/lgbtplus/transgender-and-gender-identity/supporting-trans-young-people/

"Trans young people should be able to use the toilets or facilities of the gender they identify as."

Totally agree.

An 18 month old child may just about be able to recognise their reflection, never mind ponder whether they identify as a different the gender.

I blame the parents 100%

@SirSamVimesCityWatch Safeguarding risk or not, it's against policy so she will be kicked out of Guides (which maybe she doesn't care about) but also against GDPR / data protection laws, so she could be personally liable for a fine. See analogous case: ico.org.uk/about-the-ico/news-and-events/news-and-blogs/2019/03/two-birmingham-workers-fined-for-data-protection-breaches/