That this transgender person..

[ClassSize2022]

Should not have been in the ladies changing room? Especially if naked from the waist down.

I can imagine being very frightened in this situation as a biological woman having to share a changing room with a man.

NHS transgender worker wins payout after boss asked about underwear

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3e15f7c2-0779-11ed-a986-fc91b4ad48f0?shareToken=b22ada0c3a8e04d703e4eb229fb47802

transgender worker wins payout after boss asked about underwear www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3e15f7c2-0779-11ed-a986-fc91b4ad48f0?shareToken=b22ada0c3a8e04d703e4eb229fb47802 Times article

Trans activism is profoundly misogynistic.

So nothing at all to back up this transwomans 'evidence'.

Hmmm.

I have a feeling that's because it never happened.

However, I do believe that they exposed their penis in a female space.

No penis in women’s changing rooms. Not difficult. These women were made to feel uncomfortable and yet again were told to ignore their gut feelings by an organisation that will do anything to protect men. To be honest this person sounded like a pain in the arse to work with. More women need to stop being so kind.

It's disgusting to use the word transphobic.

To call it phobic wrongly describe systems of oppression as irrational fears. 😡

Also, I hope you know that for some of us, phobias are a very real and distressing part of our lived experience and using this language is incredibly triggering.

If you have any empathy and don't want to perpetuate ableism please refrain from calling people transphobic!!!

Maybe it's time woman started taking more of a stand and just refusing to turn up to work in circumstances such as this. Getting signed off with stress. I think the only way they'll see the woman feel the same as the TW in this is to take equally bold action.

Not a bad idea.

Funny how bullying isn't ok.bur sexual harassment is all good.

Those women are being sexualky harassed by being forced to see a penis they don't consent to. And the males the victim🙄 they know exactly what they are doing. Its not am accident.

Single sex spaces are perfectly legal and they should be told to use the mens like all the other males.

It seems to me that it is females who are being bullied to put up and shit up about our spaces being invaded.
If someone is getting shock when their oh so FAB outfits and stance being praised on social media are not well received in reality, why can't people see that they have been miss directed?

Here's the tribunal judgement, 50 odd complaints were made by this individual and 2 were upheld.

Appears to have been a nightmare to manage from even before they officially started the job

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/62cff0578fa8f50bfafb091d/VvvSheffieldTeachinggHospitalsNHSSFoundationTrustt1806836-2020_Others.pdf

This - it’s shocking that women are expected to put up with this. Not sure if this hearing will bring more awareness of the issues or make women / businesses afraid to enforce sex segregation.

What struck me is they worked in a non medical capacity but still need to wander round a changing room naked from the waist down? I have had office jobs for 20 years - the rare times I've changed at work it's been a quick event. Also interesting that they could not identify which women were supposedly being insulting - every NhS environment I've worked in there has cctv in the corridors - they couldn't see who went in and out of the changing rooms at the relevant times?

I work in the NHS and I can’t imagine any scenario where it would be appropriate to see my colleagues intimate areas.

Women know if they see a penis in an area designated for the safety and dignity of females then that penis haver is indulging in a fetish. I’m pretty sure there is already a word for when persons of the XY chromosome variety force persons of the opposite (and same) sex to participate in their sexual practices and I don’t understand why it isn’t being used more.

What else to call the bigoted views often encountered on MN then?

There is an excellent thread still in FWR where a full timeline of this individual's actions are laid out. Well worth a read.

I have never felt the need to take my knickers off in a changing room other than a swimming pool. Either really ignorant or enjoying making women uncomfortable.

Either way women should have the right to be able to use facilities that are supposed to be theirs without having a willy waver invading our spaces,

Nasty inflammatory post. The transphobic hole in MN is vile.

I'm confused. I keep seeing posts, here and elsewhere about how transphobic MN is. Yet thread after thread, comment after comment, is deleted for "being transphobic".

If by transphobic you mean there are some people who are asking questions, then yes - but people should be asking questions. (respectfully, and getting respectful answers)

To the topic of this thread: if it is usual to get naked in the changing room, then i would think that even a transgender woman would be doing that. The way round not seeing a penis in a changing room is to forbid anyone from getting naked except in curtained off cubicles. Everyone has the same rules - not transphobic but pragmatic. Everyone has privacy.
If it is not usual to get naked in the changing room and someone did - i would imagine that if someone complained to a manager about it, that manager would have to ask the person involved if they had, indeed, taken off their pants. not transphobic as such - but if it is part of a concerted effort to make a transwoman uncomfortable and basically chase them away? dodgy ground, tbh, no matter how uncomfortable anyone feels. (in which case the first scenario would be better)

Anyone using the language the other women were accused (but not really proved, i think?) of using should be disciplined. Nobody should speak disrespectfully about any other colleagues. Sexist and racist language obviously included.

The tribunal seems a bit mealy-mouthed in saying the person bringing the case remembered differently - short of accusing them of lying but we can all read between the lines. More openness and honesty by everyone would be more helpful. Not obfuscation and mis-remembering. The situation is awful enough for everyone involved without adding things to the mix that can't be proved.

As a general trend, women tend to be pretty hung up about their bodies. They tend to avoid public nudity taking more private options, or tend to be very functional about drying/ changing as quickly as possible. It is unusual behaviour for women to linger in a state of undress even in a single sex changing space.

At secondary school, at an age of feeling insecure about physical changes, changing was done as discretely as possible, usually without even showing underwear.

To be a genuine trans-person living in a body of the opposite sex must be very uncomfortable and aware of the physical differences of yourself and the gender you aspire to be. Why would a person who really believes that they are in the wrong body want to flaunt their genitals and difference?

Men People that jump on the trans movement as an easy way to expose themselves to women do enormous damage to women and the people they piggyback off.

They claim they overheard comments? Are we basing legal rulings on unsubstantiated hearsay now?

Was this person encouraged to be respectful to the women in the changing room, who were upset by seeing someone with facial hair revealing a penis while the women were undressing?

Yes. That conversation is what was considered discrimination. Once the NHS decided the showers were mixed sex they couldn't then challenge her when women complained she kept getting her* cock out.

What the trust should have done is put proper safeguards in place (i.e. single sex spaces) rather than expect her* to behave differently than the women.

Why have their allegations that have no proof to back them up been taken into account?

The unlikely sounding conversation she overheard didn't affect the judgement. The tribunal didn't outright call her a liar but I think the inference is clear.

I can see that some claims of bullying or discrimination would have to be valid with the letter and comments, they are nasty comments to hear /receive. I don’t know anyone who would talk like that about anyone, no matter what. It’s a bit of a shame the staff did that as the real problem is obviously the naked from the waist down male in the changing rooms not using a cubicle and management just telling female staff that that’s how it will be. That’s awful behaviour. The person involved is also really obviously a very difficult person, the 50 complaints with 2 upheld and the ‘differing perspectives’ says it all really. Which sucks for other trans people really as this trust will probably be wary of hiring any others after this experience.

Sadly this will be reported and deleted

It's similar to a neovagina, it's not actually a real thing!!

Dunno but someone will probably have it as a username soon enough.

There’s a report button for anything you feel is “bigoted”.

Otherwise, you might just have to accept that a) other people have a legitimate and non-bigoted view that is different from yours and b) it’s not bigoted to say penises don’t belong in women-only spaces/you can’t change biological sex/women are adult human females etc.