That this transgender person..

[ClassSize2022]

Should not have been in the ladies changing room? Especially if naked from the waist down.

I can imagine being very frightened in this situation as a biological woman having to share a changing room with a man.

NHS transgender worker wins payout after boss asked about underwear

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3e15f7c2-0779-11ed-a986-fc91b4ad48f0?shareToken=b22ada0c3a8e04d703e4eb229fb47802

transgender worker wins payout after boss asked about underwear www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3e15f7c2-0779-11ed-a986-fc91b4ad48f0?shareToken=b22ada0c3a8e04d703e4eb229fb47802 Times article

I think the point is that it's so rare for women to behave in sexually predatory ways that women don't even wonder if we are sharing spaces with lesbians. Whilst I accept that there are predatory women I have never encountered one so the sexual orientation of other women in female spaces doesn't even cross my mind. I am not saying that just because it hasn't happened to me that it doesn't happen but just that I could write a book about the creepy men I've encountered and yet don't have a single equivalent experience with women and this seems to be the experience of every women I've talked to about the subject.

I'm also not convinced that sexual orientation is the relevant factor in whether someone behaves in a predatory way the statistics are pretty clear it is sex and not sexual orientation which matters.

A naked male in the same space has already transgressed a boundary which means I know they are not to be trusted.

I have zero sympathy with anyone who argues there is a female penis and I should expect to see it. No is a complete sentence.
There is no "both sides have a point " here

Agree agree agree

Why can't people get it into their thick head that the primary issue is that women want a safe space for changing in without having men born with a penis invading them!!!!!!!!!

Predatory lesbians I have encountered in my long life: zero
Predatory men I have encountered in my long life: too many to count

I’m actually glad this case has happened and it’s in all the media, as it shows that women’s spaces are no longer single sex and that puts women in a terrible position.
Hopefully employers are watching this and will now actually implement the law- they are allowed to have single sex spaces and that needs to be implemented asap.

Are there many non medical roles in the NHS that requires you to get changed at work?

@FourTeaFallOut i was wondering that too.

Does that include repairs staff when the toilets are broken?

All staff in our trust, whether clinical or not, have to change in and out of uniforms before leaving the workplace.

The person secured the Trust's agreement that they could use the cubicle in the women's changing room before they started the job.

That was the issue. So many organisations have been stonewalled that they're putting their female employees' wants and needs at the bottom of the pile.

Does that include repairs staff when the toilets are broken?

Repairs staff aren't required to take their clothes off, last I heard.

It doesn’t say that the TW ever exposed her penis.
”An employment tribunal in Leeds was told that the transgender woman — who cannot be identified – was quizzed by a manager about her underwear after concerns were raised that she had been naked from the waist down in the women’s changing room.”

But it also says
“And on the same day, the employee said she was subjected to “deeply offensive and unacceptable” abuse while in a changing room cubicle, when she overheard a discussion between two female colleagues. The tribunal noted that one colleague said that she was “sick to death of this bloke with a dick pretending to be a woman, who doesn’t even dress like a girl and has facial hair, that thing may rape me and we can drive it out of the department and maybe find a suitable leper colony for it”. Later, the transgender woman said she again found a note in her locker saying “get out tranny”.

So the TW used changing cubicles to dress and undress. She couldn’t identify the colleague that said the above because of the cubicle walls/no line of sight. The changing room also had a shower so likely the TW had a towel wrapped around her between shower and changing cubicle.

If the concerned women had seen her penis, why didn’t they say so? Surely that’s more to the point and damning than saying vaguely “naked from the waist down” which is also true of anyone simply in a towel as they aren’t dressed.

They were in a completely non-medical role. They worked in the catering department.

Oh ok, in that case then yeah changing out of uniform is understandable, however the requirement of a shower wouldn't be and therefore no reason at all to expose yourself in a communal space. Thank you for the clarification

This is a red herring. Plenty of people at my last workplace cycled in and changed.

Its probably worth keeping the main thing the main thing. The person could have chosen to change in a discreet way but instead, they walked around with their penis out. That’s still not the main problem though.The trust made a dreadful decision to allow this person with a penis to change in a female changing room. Single def spaces should be upheld and a different solution found for the person in the law suit.

Oh well. It hasn't done the trans cause any good because as an employer I'd think twice about putting my staff in potential situations like this, and my company at risk of being sued. I'm sure the majority of trans women would have been respectful in this scenario but this one has done the cause no favors whatsoever. They've just made it harder to employ other transwomen for fear of these types of incidents happening.

But if you have a uniform does that not mean that you are in a medical role?

But if you have a uniform does that not mean that you are in a medical role?

Catering and cleaning staff wear uniforms.

No, clerical staff, porters, cleaners, ward assistants, caterers, and discharge facilitators are all non-clinical, required to wear a uniform, and are not allowed to wear the uniform traveling to or from work. We all have to change

Wait, ignore that, obviously cleaners/maintenance have a uniform and others, thinking non-medical=admin I just got stuck on those in admin roles

Sorry, type slow, xpost

I'm intrigued why someone would wander around with just their top on & nothing below the waist.
In my experience, in women's open changing rooms (ie no cubicles), the first thing to go on is the knickers!
Again, just my experience, so there maybe women who get dressed like this but I've never seen it & certainly it wouldn't occur to me to do it.
Maybe I'm a dinosaur about these things...

The comments and the note are dreadful. What’s more dreadful is that women feel that sort of behaviour is their last resort to remove a penis from their safe space. They had made formal complaints and been ignored, so they started to get angry and took matters into their own hands.

It is hard to know the fracts here - someone quoted the decision which seems to have said the trans person may not have given very good or accurate evidence. Lots of employment tribunals tend to be sympathetic to the employee even if they do not win their main case some rule or other is broken and they get some cash - it is how that system seems to work with so many potholes for employers to avoid.

In this case if the person had their penis out in the women's changing room that is not acceptable. If they were given the right before the job started to use the women's changing room enclosed cubicle then I am still not sure most women would like that so surely using a disabled toilet or something else or not being obliged to change out of catering uniform until home might have been a solution that was better for most of the workers. Putting nasty notes (if that happened) in the person's locker is not every nice although I do not see why the employer is responsible.