That this transgender person..

[ClassSize2022]

Should not have been in the ladies changing room? Especially if naked from the waist down.

I can imagine being very frightened in this situation as a biological woman having to share a changing room with a man.

NHS transgender worker wins payout after boss asked about underwear

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3e15f7c2-0779-11ed-a986-fc91b4ad48f0?shareToken=b22ada0c3a8e04d703e4eb229fb47802

transgender worker wins payout after boss asked about underwear www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3e15f7c2-0779-11ed-a986-fc91b4ad48f0?shareToken=b22ada0c3a8e04d703e4eb229fb47802 Times article

I'm just simply saying I don't know. You don't have to agree with me.

I do think these discussions are often valuable for lurkers, however.

I didn't know I was going to get my penis out in front of women, I just made sure I could before I agreed to this job and then did.

Context.

Flashing is a criminal sexual offence in the UK. So let's be clear on this:

This person commmited a sexual offence and not only got away with it, they were/will be rewarded with a large payout for doing so

That's where we are.

I have never found it necessary to expose my genitals when leaving a shower cubicle - I wrap in a towel while still in the cubical - and take extra care if steppping into a space where others are present. Therefore I would take any exposure of genitals (even an 'accidental' dropping of towel - it's perfectly possible to secure it safely with enough care) as a deliberate act of aggression. Particularly if the genitals were of the opposite sex to anyone else in the area.

They were naked from the waist down but you're not sure if their penis was exposed? Are you using a different definition of naked to the rest of us?

You don't have to agree with me when I say nonsense that facilitates flashers just don't call them flashers you transphobic holes.

I'm absolutely not the 'the arbiter of truth' and I'm happy not to be engaged with further. A lot of posters asked me questions and I answered them on the basis of my own opinions. I completely the agree the thread is becoming unnecessarily full now, so on that note, I will get on with the rest of my day and no longer post.

Can you specify your definition of naked so that they know the context of nakedness that you are discussing. Thank you.

You keep saying that we don't have to agree with you. We are disagreeing with you. Haven't you noticed?

Right, but you said that "some objections can veer into transphobic territory".

First of all, there appears to be no clear definition of what transphobic actually is. Trans activists seem to think an awful lot of things are transphobic, including saying things such as "trans women are male". If you take that to its logical conclusion, it seems some of them think the discussion of biological sex is transphobic. That can't be right. So I'm very uncomfortable with people's concerns being dismissed as "transphobic" when no one can agree on what actually is transphobic and what isn't.

Secondly, in this case, there is no evidence that any of the transphobic statements were actually made. We only have one person's word for it. One person who is clearly unreliable.

Thirdly, if the alleged transphobic comments were made, and we only have one person's word for it that they were, the situation came about precisely because women's need for single sex changing spaces was ignored in the first place, for the benefit of one male individual, and because we are living in some bizarre universe where women are actually expected to give reasons for why they don't want to share communal changing spaces with penises.

If "no is a complete sentence" were actually accepted in relation to women's rights and their bodily autonomy, the conversation wouldn't need to get as far as anyone saying anything transphobic. It would begin and end with women saying no.

First of all, there appears to be no clear definition of what transphobic actually is. Trans activists seem to think an awful lot of things are transphobic, including saying things such as "trans women are male". If you take that to its logical conclusion, it seems some of them think the discussion of biological sex is transphobic. That can't be right. So I'm very uncomfortable with people's concerns being dismissed as "transphobic" when no one can agree on what actually is transphobic and what isn't.

Excellent point. Sometimes saying that MTF trans people are male is even framed as "misgendering", and then people say things like "deliberate misgendering is harassment" when they may mean ignoring their preferred pronouns or they may mean being able to articulate that you aren't comfortable sharing spaces with a male person.

But that is based on them being male and statistically more likely to be a threat. It’s not because they’re trans.
Female only spaces are “male-phobic” if you’re going to throw around words.

Yes, I do know you’re disagreeing with me. What I’m saying is that I’m not trying to change your mind and that it’s fine for two people to disagree with each other.

Is a transvestite and transgender woman the same thing and if not what is the difference?

I don’t actually think there is a difference. And if there was, how would we be able to decide who was eligible to access women’s spaces? And then there’s transsexuals who deem themselves totally different altogether.

Transsexuals have had sex reassignment surgery (bottom surgery) I believe

I see. So fully committed then.

Do they take as voluntary pay cut to reflect the gender pay gap I wonder?

Yeah, even without the dangly bits, they seem to still want to cling on to the male trappings. A good example of this is how TW are treated in society versus how society treats women. Who gets listened to, pandered to and fawned over and who gets ignored, belittled and abused for stating an opinion?

During a work Pride event thing I learned that the terms transvestite and transsexual aren’t used any more and are frowned upon.

so I think everyone’s called transgender now and that could be someone who’s had surgery or someone who just wants to live as a woman?

Or someone who just says the magic words @Snoopsnoggysnog no changes are necessary. Look at James Wallis for an excellent example of this.

I always thought why is a parody of womanhood so popular and celebrated. Almost like, let’s present ourselves as a ‘cartoon’ version of a woman.

I saw a transwoman out with two male and a female friend. The effort this person went to ‘look’ like a ‘woman’. The way they thought they were a woman because of their mannerisms or the way they tried to sit. It’s ridiculous. They’re not a woman, not all women look the same so how can you ‘act’ like a woman. There was a wikihow I’d seen in the past on telling men how to be women I just thought - you are not a woman you can’t ‘act’ like a woman you are born a woman.